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Windows 7 discussion

(61 posts)
  • Started 8 years ago by Scott
  • Latest reply from BobJam
  • Topic Viewed 9815 times

Scott
Posts: 5618

Windows 7 will have it's own forum soon enough. In the meantime, please add any thoughts or opinions you may have below.

Posted 8 years ago
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jmcguire
Posts: 552

I have been very impressed with the videos. I have a lot of problems with Vista, so the "fixes" are very appealing. I am looking forward to using Windows 7 to see the new features and whether or not "broken" software in Vista will work again in Windows 7. All in all, Windows 7 looks to be a solid Windows OS.

*Note*
A request to the Moderators:
Please leave the Windows XP forum.

Posted 8 years ago
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Scott
Posts: 5618

(XP forums are here forever)

Posted 8 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

We recently had a discussion about Windows 7 in this thread:
https://www.howtogeek.com/forum/topic/whats-the-big-deal/page/2?replies=34#post-60179

There seems to be little information that I have seen from Microsoft, but lots of speculation in the industry press. I speculate that Win7 will have to be based on Vista. So, I wonder, how will Microsoft position Win7 as the answer to all of the perceived problems with Vista? If they can't get the large, high-profile businesses to finally switch away from XP to Win7, then Win7 will not be any more successful than Vista.

Posted 8 years ago
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jmcguire
Posts: 552

http://lifehacker.com/5053228/.....ts-to-come

http://lifehacker.com/5075076/.....ok-awesome

Having interaction with certain businesses I know there are problems created by Windows Vista that did not exist with Windows XP. A lot of this is not being friendly with other software. I have heard people before say that companies need to fix their software. I find this to be sad that people have this mindset, because it is a mindset of Microsoft runs everything. I could understand programs "breaking" when switching from Windows 98 to Windows 2000 because it was a switch from DOS to NT. As far as I know, since Apple released their Unix-based architecture (OS X) they have had no compatibility issues with new versions of OS X, meaning if something worked on Panther, it will work on Snow Leopard.

I do not know about any other country, or private industries in the US, but with government industries (including universities and schools), they are almost forced to change to the newest Windows OS, because the money to get new computers is grant money.

From what I have read, it seems that Microsoft has addressed many issues that Vista had. Start-up time is supposedly faster (though currently shut-down time is slower), Windows 7 will run well on 1GB of RAM, networking is improved (especially connecting to wireless networks), and supposedly software compatibility will not be a big issue.

My thought is, if Microsoft has fixed the problems that Vista created, when private industries see government industries having no problems, they will make the switch as well.

Posted 8 years ago
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JadeEmperor
Posts: 244

as far as i know, we can all forget about Vista when we talk about Win7. i think Win7 will be based on the Win2K8 code if i'm not mistaken.

i'm using Win2K8 workstation at the office and it's been very stable and fast. IE would crash every now (i did it on purpose) but the whole Win2K8 is not affected. i still have yet to see Win2K8 hang like the previous Windows server versions before. powershell is cool too. coming from a unix background it has helped alot.

Posted 8 years ago
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madmacs
Posts: 1438

@JadeEmperor,

what makes you think that Win 7 is based on Win2K8 code? Almost everything I have read to date points in the direction towards the Vista kernel!! Building a new O/S from scratch in such a short time would be almost impossible, if not ludicrous, seeing as MS are trying to get back on the right track with their customers.

I am not saying you are wrong, I would just like to know where you have this information?

Thx, Matt

Posted 8 years ago
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madmacs
Posts: 1438

I was getting this confused when you wrote Win 2K8 code. Vista and Windows Server 2008 both work with the same kernel!!! Here is a good little clip I found about the Win 7 kernel!!

Another article based on the previous postings.

Posted 8 years ago
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jd2066
Posts: 3814

> "As far as I know, since Apple released their Unix-based architecture (OS X) they have had no compatibility issues with new versions of OS X, meaning if something worked on Panther, it will work on Snow Leopard."
Going from Panther to Snow Leopard is a minor release so there shouldn't many problems with program compatibility. It's like going from Windows 2000 to Windows XP and apparently Windows Vista to Windows 7.
Going from Mac OS 9 to OS 10 did break a lot of things as it was a major release. As was Windows XP (NT 5.1) to Windows Vista (NT 6.0). Windows Vista changed many things with drivers and programs so things will break with it.
Those changes were made for good reasons like Windows Aero, it renders the desktop graphics with the graphics card processing unit (GPU), freeing the CPU to do other things and by using the GPU, you can do some nice Window manipulations. Like Thumbnail Previews. Check out the program Video In Picture for one really cool use of Aero.

Posted 8 years ago
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The Geek
Posts: 2059

Here's a really great Windows 7 theme, which I'm considering writing about...

http://giannisgx89.deviantart......-102269037

Posted 8 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

I just stumbled on a series of Win7 articles by Paul Thurrott. Here's the link to part 1 and some juicy quotes:
http://www.winsupersite.com/win7/win7_preview.asp

"Windows 7 is Windows Vista done right."
"Is Windows 7 a major or minor release? Microsoft emphatically claims that Windows 7 is indeed a major release..."
"My take on this is a bit more nuanced. Clearly, Windows 7 is to Windows Vista as was Windows XP to Windows 2000."
"...in both cases, the underlying core of the OS (the kernel plus support code) is largely unchanged from that of its predecessor."

Posted 8 years ago
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madmacs
Posts: 1438

Reference to ScottW´s link. What gets on my nerves (put politely!!) is how Microsoft pulls the money out of our pockets just for being product testers!! Okay so one doesn´t have to go out and buy the latest O/S and be up-to-date with everything but that´s the way some of us (me) are/is. Why can´t M/S bring out an O/S that doesn´t have to be discussed about for two years then only to realise that everything could have done better in the first place!! (2000/XP and Vista/Win 7). I have just built a new computer (3-4 months) and purchased a retail copy of Ultimate which wasn´t cheap and a year and a half later I´ll end up spending another 300-500? Euros for Windows 7 Ultimate. Add this to an i7 setup and I know who won´t be able to afford a vacation next year, lol. Thx M/S, yet again!!

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

Reference madmacs' comments concerning Microsoft operating systems and out of pocket cost to consumers.
Check out this short history of MS DOS versions.
http://e-articles.info/e/a/title/DOS-Versions/
I'll leave it to the reader to research the number of CPU hardware versions which have been introduced.
As with all technology from the beginning of mankind, innovation shall never cease until the end of time itself.

Posted 8 years ago
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Spacegold
Posts: 594

What a trip down memory lane that was, Rick. Hard to believe that we struggled for so long without a GUI. Seems like Windows has been here forever, but actually it has been less than 20 years. And in that time we have seen it rise to its pinnacle in NT and XP, only to become old, fat, and bloated in Vista. No wonder Vista is less than a howling commercial success. It does not fit the pattern. It is retrograde in some respects. I hope the experience is not wasted on the Redmond Wonders. Yes, another OS to exploit advances in hardware technology is due soon, but (ARE YOU LISTENING, MICROSOFT?) let's hope they pay better attention to backward compatibility and efficient usage of both processor and RAM. And, while we are hoping, let's hope Windows 7 pays a little less attention to form at the expense of substance.

Posted 8 years ago
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jd2066
Posts: 3814

> "Reference to ScottW´s link. What gets on my nerves (put politely!!) is how Microsoft pulls the money out of our pockets just for being product testers!!"
> "Why can´t M/S bring out an O/S that doesn´t have to be discussed about for two years then only to realise that everything could have done better in the first place!!"

Windows Vista was tested before being released and is a good OS. There are just some things that can be done better, Microsoft is not going to redo everything. Most of the new features like the new driver model and Windows Aero will stay mostly the same in Windows 7.
Windows Vista needed to come out to get those major changes done and out there. Sure there will be issues with the transition but it needed to happen, Windows XP is 5 years old and doesn't have features like driver install via USB disc, rendering graphics with the GPU, etc.
No matter what they do, no OS is going to be perfect. If you look online, you will find that Windows XP, Mac OS X and Linux all have their own share of problems too.

Posted 8 years ago
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madmacs
Posts: 1438

@jd2066, don´t get me wrong. I use Vista and am more than satisfied with it. I also know that Windows 7 will be built around Vista. What I was saying was that I will be spending money on two O/S´s within the space of two years that are basically the same, which is annoying!! If an O/S only cost as much as an Internet Security Suite then it wouldn´t bother me getting one yearly!! Regards, Matt.

Posted 8 years ago
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The Geek
Posts: 2059

@madmacs

I completely agree with you there... Vista Ultimate is really expensive. Let's hope they price the Vista -> 7 upgrade reasonably.

Posted 8 years ago
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Scott
Posts: 5618

What, you don't think the privilege of playing Tinker was worth the price of Ultimate?

I read somewhere that MS will accommodate Vista users with a 'reasonable' price to update to an equivalent version of 7.

Posted 8 years ago
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madmacs
Posts: 1438

Lol, Scott!! Does an upgrade work if I was to build a new system, then use Vista on one and Win 7 on the other computer?

P.S. I only purchased "Ultimate" because my wifes German!! That way we can both use the languages we wanted. But I like to "Tinker" with things sometimes ;)

Posted 8 years ago
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Scott
Posts: 5618

Tinkering with the hardware, eh? I think that's illegal in some southern States (Georgia, Alabama, Bavaria...)

(Don't know fully about the upgrade circumstances)

Posted 8 years ago
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jd2066
Posts: 3814

I have to agree with you on the price, Ultimate is expensive.

Posted 8 years ago
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Scott
Posts: 5618

Possible version info,
http://arstechnica.com/journal.....-windows-7

Posted 8 years ago
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Spacegold
Posts: 594

I am not getting my hopes up about windows 7. It has not occurred to MS yet that the User Interface has matured. They keep screwing with the interface, which was a huge complaint about Vista. Fine, let them fix all the stuff under the hood and add more power and useful accessories, but leave the damn doors and windows where we are used to finding them. Changing the User Interface FOR THE SAKE OF CHANGE ALONE alienates your customers who invest a lot of time learning and getting accustomed to the subtleties of an operating system. New things, fine, old things should work the same as or easier than they did in the previous version.

Posted 8 years ago
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Scott
Posts: 5618

Howling at the moon, are ya?

Posted 8 years ago
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BobJam
Posts: 1052

Spacegold,

You make a good argument (and humorous I might add . . . "leave the damn doors and windows where we are used to finding them") for keeping the GUI essentially the same.

But I would have to disagree with you on the backwards compatibility issue ("hope they pay better attention to backward compatibility"). While I myself get infuriated with the upgrades in software necessary to keep pace with a new OS, the reality is that sooner or later backward compatibility is going to have to be dumped entirely.

That's because the coding space that has to be devoted to backwards compatibility (and it's a vicious circle/cycle when software is upgraded . . . usually becoming bloatware at some point . . . it then requires more coding space as it becomes the "backwards compatible" candidate to the new OS) can better be devoted to new OS features. Backwards compatibility is one of the reasons that each new OS release becomes bigger than the last (certainly new features account for that too).

Someday soon, as painful as it might be to some users (myself included), backward compatibility is going to have to be eliminated. We all have our favorite legacy programs, and will lose them kicking and screaming. I am not looking forward to the day that I'm going to have to buy new software for everything I do, but it will come.

Some of us will cling to an old OS . . . there are still ME and 98 users out there. But there will come a time when those users will no longer be able to communicate with users of a new OS, and then they'll HAVE to switch just to maintain connectivity with all their friends who have put down their stubby pencils.

May not happen in our lifetime, but some generation is going to have to deal with it.

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

@Bob,
The problem is not so much with compatibility but MS never has finished a product before they introduced another unfinished product.
Let's just take a few products for instance.
Win2K (4) Service Packs and needs a 5th.
WinXP (3) Service Packs and needs a 4th.
Vista (1) Service Pack and needs a 2nd supposedly on the way.
Win7 Betas begins in January 2009 and there may be even public Betas soon.
------------------------------
The same goes for their other products like Office.
Office 98 (2) Service Releases plus needs a 3rd.
Office 2K Different Modules changed and never figured what was what.
Office XP 2002 Never figured out how many Service Packs needed.
Office 2003 (3) Service Packs and needs a 4th.
Office 2007 What Service Pack is available today ??
-------------------------------
One can't really say an MS Product is obsolete because they have never finish any product.
It's akin to selling customers (4) legged tables always with one leg missing.
Then send the customers 2X4s to prop the table up until another table can be designed with a 4th leg missing again !!
This is NOT to say that MS has not made HUGE sums of money by engaging in this business model or strategy. (LOL)

Posted 8 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

I'm with BobJam on this one -- backward compatibility causes bloat and inhibits progress. I'm all for burning bridges. There's a relatively easy solution to backwards compatibility.

First, remove all (well, most) of the backward compatibility mess so that the OS is lean and fast. All well-behaved programs that use the established APIs will run just fine and those developers will get a gold star. When a user must run a program that is not well-behaved and compatible, they then have to install the "Compatibility Package". This runs as a virtual machine on the primary OS and contains all of the legacy code. The old programs will run just fine here, but the users will start to see that they are devoting tons of resources to the Compatibility Package just for a few poorly written programs. They will start looking for alternatives that run native and the gold star developers will win more customers. The forums will fill up with questions such as, "what's a good alternative to (some program) so I don't have to run that stupid Compatibility Package?"

In Microsoft's case, they already have the Virtual Machine technology and a fairly stable OS in WinXP to run as the compatibility platform. As an alternative to VMs, they could implement a hypervisor-based OS and logically partition the user's machine. With new CPUs having multiple cores and logical processors, there is plenty to go around. MS has hypervisor technology as well.

Posted 8 years ago
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jd2066
Posts: 3814

> "They keep screwing with the interface, which was a huge complaint about Vista. Fine, let them fix all the stuff under the hood and add more power and useful accessories, but leave the damn doors and windows where we are used to finding them. Changing the User Interface FOR THE SAKE OF CHANGE ALONE alienates your customers who invest a lot of time learning and getting accustomed to the subtleties of an operating system."
While I agree that the changes take some getting used to, I don't think all the changes were just for change.
For instance Windows Explorer in Windows Vista has a details pane that displays the metadata in a file and lets you change some of it.
Also renaming "Add/Remove Programs" to "Programs and Features" makes sense as that Control Panel item now lets you change programs features in addition to removing them.

Posted 8 years ago
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LittleToucan
Posts: 19

This really stinks. My laptop came with Vista Ultimate, it took months to get it just right. Had to buy Notebook Controller to get it stable, now it runs great. This new OS isn't being released to make life easier as they claim, it's for them to make money. I remember when 95 came out, then 98 and finally a decent OS XP, now several versions of Vista (with tweaking can work nicely) now it's Windows 7? How I miss the days of 3.1.

Posted 8 years ago
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BobJam
Posts: 1052

Little Toucan,

You raise an interesting point. Seems as though when we finally get the OS the way we want it, M$ comes out with a new one and we have to learn/configure all over again.

When new OS's come out, we all go kicking and screaming to it, firmly convinced that the last was better.

In the old DOS days, when Windows 3.1 came out, I was firmly convinced for the first several months that DOS was better. Since the IT guys at work transitioned to Windows 3.1, I HAD to get used to it. And eventually I did. Then M$ came out with 95 (which I'm still convinced was the crappiest iteration). So I went kicking and screaming to 95, but eventually when the "b" update came out, I got it the way I wanted it.

But then 98FE came out just when I had finally gotten 95b the way I wanted it.

In that particular instance, I was glad that 98FE had come out and embraced it. However, they soon came out with 98SE, and that, as far as I'm concerned was the most stable, with the exception of XP.

I was very pleased with 98SE, and fortunately I didn't go to ME, which IMO was a disaster.

But then XP came out, and again I went kicking and screaming to it, and for the first few month I didn't like it at all. Finally, I got XP the way I wanted it and am still happily camped with it.

I haven't yet gone to VISTA, but will be forced to it when I get a new machine. Likely I won't like it at first, and will become one of the many VISTA bashers. But I suspect I will get used to it . . . maybe even like it . . . and then just as I get VISTA configured the way I want it, 7 will come out for public use, and that painful cycle will start all over again.

It's human nature to always fantasize about the "old days". Somehow we always think they were "better", but that often turns out not to be the case.

"I don't know what's wrong with these kids these days . . . I don't know what this world is coming to."

My parents said that about my generation when we watched Elvis Presley on the Ed Sullivan show. And I said the same thing when my kids were growing up. Now my kids are saying it about their kids. Seems as though every generation says it about the next.

In reality, things always wind up better, though they do take a crooked path sometimes.

Posted 8 years ago
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BobJam
Posts: 1052

As an addendum to what I said above . . . and I know I'm morphing WAY off topic here, but this little factoid seems worth it:

Does this complaint seem familiar? "Today's young people love luxury. They have bad manners, scorn authority, have no respect for their elders and gossip when they should be working. Young people don't stand up any more when older people enter the room. They contradict their parents, swagger around in society, gobble up all the sweets on the table, cross their legs and tyrannize their teachers." How old is that quote, and who said it? Socrates, (470-399 BC). So, this problem is not new at all, probably been around since the dawn of time.

Posted 8 years ago
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BobJam
Posts: 1052

From the AskWoody site:

"Paul Thurrott has weighed in with a surprising prediction for the release date of Windows 7:

'It's pretty widely known that Microsoft will ship a beta release (and a public one at that) of Windows 7 in January. This beta will be the only beta and it will be followed by a single release candidate build, and then the final version, all in quick succession. I expect Windows 7 to be finalized by April 2009 at the latest, and to be completed simultaneously with Windows Vista/Windows Server 2008 Service Pack 2 (SP2), which is also due in April. (Windows 7 and SP2 share more code than people realize as well, by the way.) Windows 7 will be made broadly available to consumers and business customers no later than June 2009.'

Many months ago, I guessed September 1 as the shrinkwrap-box-on-store-shelves date. Now I'm not so sure.

Steve Sinofsky shipped Office XP before it was fully baked, and he still thinks he did the right thing. He has a history of shipping early on all of his products: he puts them through very rigorous internal testing, but doesn't worry too much about testing outside of Redmond. The result is lots of incompatibilities, which he promptly patches - consumers turn into beta testers - and his sales don't suffer. I expect he'll do the same thing with Win7.

The move to unlink the Live Essentials was brilliant. Many of the cantankerous Windows programs can be released four or six months after Win7 ships, with new "beta" versions every month. Sharing the code base between Vista Service Pack 2 and Windows 7 means we get more glitz with the same old plumbing - but it's new plumbing.

The current pre-beta of Win7 is remarkably stable. I wouldn't be surprised if Win7 went gold in June."

Posted 8 years ago
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BobJam
Posts: 1052

Another tidbit from the AskWoody site:

"Windows 7 Beta 1 has leaked
Posted by woody on 28 December 2008 - 07:31:20 Windows News
And I can see it right now on the alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc.me-beta newsgroup. It's called working.one_microsoft.windows.7.beta.1.build.7000. I can't vouch for the file's authenticity - make sure the copy you get has an fsum of f9dce6ebd0a63930b44d8ae802b63825 - but it sure looks like the "gold" version of Win 7 Beta 1.

The warez sites get it before the beta testers, and Torrent traffic is undoubtedly up because of the beta. On the one hand, I bet some folks at Microsoft are furious. On the other hand, it's a very efficient and egalitarian distribution method."

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

@ Bob,
Have only (not) used one version of windows.
That was WinME. A real looser.
Went directly from Win98SE to Win2K because there was rumor on the net that MS would start using PA if one didn't early adopt Win2k.
Stayed with Win2k until XP2 was released.
Think XP2 has a "Comic Book" looking GUI so have always run it in Classic Mode.
Was a tester on early Vista.
MS didn't like an article I published on Vista so they pulled my Tester Status but left my MS Partnership alone.
Will skip Vista altogether as it still has too many problems as can be seen from on-line Forums and Tech Articles.
Plan to migrate (Directly) to Windows7 from XP3 because of new hardware needed plus Windows7 is being built on more Mature Vista Code.
-------------------------------
Plan of attack is to implement Intel i7 Hardware and Windows7 Software in a somewhat concurrent manner on the network so as to minimize the cost of change over and still maintain reliability plus speed. Probably will use Open Source - Open Office - as retired and don't need MS Project and the bells & whistles of (Complete) MS Office Suite anymore.
-------------------------------
If you're hanging out on the ALT and WAREZ Sites, Good luck !!!! :) :) Hope You Have Clean Installs Archived. (LOL)
Best and Kindest Regards,
Rick P.

Posted 8 years ago
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LittleToucan
Posts: 19

My point is that MS has been taking advantage of people's wants for the latest and greatest. People are willing to dump millions to get the latest gadget. So manufacturer's and software developers use timed obsolescence so that they can continue to squeeze money out of people. Then they advertise that this new and improved product will be the ultimate version. When in fact it's just another product with different issues that need improvement on, this gives them reason to come out with another improved ultimate version of the product...and the story goes on. We buy the junk, they make improvements, we buy the improvements hoping this with solve our problems with the product, the product is lacking and has other problems and the cycle keeps going. And another thing, if MS makes major changes then that means we have to now get all new software to run on that new OS or wait for months before the program manufacturers have patches available. Now people get angry with MS because they didn't make the OS right to begin with. Well, that's really not the idea, can't make a lot of money off of a truly stable OS, look at Linux, simple and stable. I don't think anyone made billions off that OS. MS may actually hit upon a decent OS, but they really don't want anyone to be satisfied, otherwise no one will want the next generation of OS. My bottom line is, it's all about greed. OK now I will step off my soapbox!

Posted 8 years ago
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jd2066
Posts: 3814

LittleToucan said: "Well, that's really not the idea, can't make a lot of money off of a truly stable OS, look at Linux, simple and stable. I don't think anyone made billions off that OS. MS may actually hit upon a decent OS, but they really don't want anyone to be satisfied, otherwise no one will want the next generation of OS. My bottom line is, it's all about greed."

In my opinion, it's not that simple. Linux has problems just like Windows. There are some parts of it that crash or don't work a lot of time and interface problems.
With Linux, you can have about as many issues getting compiz to work as getting Windows Aero to work right on Windows Vista.
There are some things that Windows just does a lot better then Linux. Like for instance it seems to me that there are far better DVD Video authoring and burning programs, picture management programs and Office suites on Windows.
Now, of course I'm not saying that Windows Vista is the best or that Linux sucks.
I happen to think that both Windows and Linux have their own strengths and weaknesses.
I use Linux on some of my computers, Windows Vista on others and Windows XP on ones that don't run Windows Vista.
I think that no OS is perfect and no OS can be when it is programed by humans who are flawed in their own ways (Forgeting things or not always looking at the long term).
As for Microsoft saying it's the best version of Windows, that is true at the time it comes out. Just because they release a newer version later that is better doesn't mean that is a lie or misleading.
And if it was misleading, it's important to remember that it's Microsoft's marketing department that says that, not the Windows development team. Microsoft is made up of many different departments and not all of them think the same way. It just happens to be that Microsoft's marketing department is the one speaking on behalf of all the departments most of the time.

Posted 8 years ago
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BobJam
Posts: 1052

Hey Rick,

>"If you're hanging out on the ALT and WAREZ Sites, Good luck !!!!"

Actually, if you read my post, that was from AskWoody (look at the quote symbols), not something I said. I wouldn't touch those ALT and WAREZ Sites with a ten foot pole!

Posted 8 years ago
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Californian
Posts: 1

Well 7 is much faster than Vista. As far as a new kernel, we will just have to wait for Midori, but so far I am really satisfied with 7 (typing this on 7 now). I tried Linux (specifically Fedora 10 and Yellow Dog on my PS3), but, in all honesty, they simply take too much work and are actually slower than Windows, even Vista. It might just be because of my hardware, but yes, Compiz is a real pain to get working, and installing software is not merely download and click install; no, I had to do all software installs in Terminal because of "Authentication Fail" issues. And my Wireless-N worked only at 1/10th of its full potential. Needless to say, when I heard there was a leaked version of 7, I became wary of Linux and finally caved to going back to Windows. It really is much better, and even in its prebeta state I have fewer problems with it than with Linux. Not exactly sure what an "ALT" site is, but if you mean torrent sites, you just need to have a good one that allows comments and know how not to get fooled and they really are safe for use. I only really use it to try out software and music before I buy it if, as is the case with 7 now, it is not readily available, although I have pirated a couple things entirely. Anyway, I found out about this site merely from looking for html wallpaper on 7, but the *awesome* Vista utility here for some reason doesn't work on 7, so does anyone know of any others, or (less likely) how to make this one work on 7? Could it, perhaps, be that I have an x64 processor? Thanks!

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

@ All,
Relief may be on the way.
------------------------------
(Information Sourced From Internet)
------------------------------
Microsoft has promised to open the beta to all users in early 2009, the company has been mum on an exact release date. Information published on its own Web site earlier this month, however, hinted that the beta will be available
(( No Later Than Jan. 13 )).
Some commentators and bloggers have maintained that Microsoft may release the beta
(( As Early As Jan. 7, ))
after CEO Steve Ballmer delivers a keynote that evening at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, where he is expected to talk about Windows 7.
(( Emphasis Added by Poster ))
Regards,
Rick P.

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

@ Bob,
Was only (KIDDING) you concerning those ALT and Warez Websites.
Know You Practice Some of the Safest Computing Habits in the HTG Community. :) :)
Best Regards,
Rick P.

Posted 8 years ago
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BobJam
Posts: 1052

Hey Rick,

Sorry . . . forgot you had a . . . twisted sense of humor (grin).

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

@ Bob,
"Life is like a box of Chocolates" and Computers are just a box of Parts to include the O/S. :) :)
Best Regards,
Rick P.

Posted 8 years ago
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JDorfler
Posts: 35

Anybody actually looking forward to Win 7? After WinXP actually being out so long it feels too soon for another Win OS to me, then again the time between Win 95 to 98 to ME to XP wasn't that long of a time. I guess I am just used to XP's reign at the top for so long.

Posted 8 years ago
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jmcguire
Posts: 552

***** Quoted From ScottW *****
I'm with BobJam on this one -- backward compatibility causes bloat and inhibits progress. I'm all for burning bridges. There's a relatively easy solution to backwards compatibility.

First, remove all (well, most) of the backward compatibility mess so that the OS is lean and fast. All well-behaved programs that use the established APIs will run just fine and those developers will get a gold star. When a user must run a program that is not well-behaved and compatible, they then have to install the "Compatibility Package". This runs as a virtual machine on the primary OS and contains all of the legacy code. The old programs will run just fine here, but the users will start to see that they are devoting tons of resources to the Compatibility Package just for a few poorly written programs. They will start looking for alternatives that run native and the gold star developers will win more customers. The forums will fill up with questions such as, "what's a good alternative to (some program) so I don't have to run that stupid Compatibility Package?"

In Microsoft's case, they already have the Virtual Machine technology and a fairly stable OS in WinXP to run as the compatibility platform. As an alternative to VMs, they could implement a hypervisor-based OS and logically partition the user's machine. With new CPUs having multiple cores and logical processors, there is plenty to go around. MS has hypervisor technology as well.
***** Quoted from ScottW *****

That is actually one of the best views I have heard about backwards compatibility. It would allow users to use programs that will never be updated, whatever the reason. I was thinking of companies that have went out of business. It would though, encourage people to use new software or newer versions of their software.

I am against companies forcing you to upgrade things, and I think many people are, so this would be perfect because it would allow the user to make their own decision, and would not bloat the new OS.

***** Quoted from raphoenix *****
Went directly from Win98SE to Win2K because there was rumor on the net that MS would start using PA if one didn't early adopt Win2k.
***** Quoted from raphoenix *****

What does PA stand here? I know it isn't Pennsylvania. Also, I would like to make my avatar rotate on a vertical axis (similar to your avatar). Do you know of an image editing program to make that happen? All the ones I find need multiple images to create a gif.

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

jmcguire,
PA stands for MS Product Activation when using Original Full MS O/Ses on CD/DVD (OEM & RETAIL) or other MS Software such as MS Office, etc, etc.
-------------------
Google (resize animated gif on-line) WITHOUT () for several free sites.
Animated Avatar can be a 50x50 Pixels, NO Greater Than 1024KB Animated Gif File Uploaded on HTG Profile Page.
See HTG Instructions on Profile Page.
-------------------
Best Regards,
Rick P.

Posted 8 years ago
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jmcguire
Posts: 552

@raphoenix
Thanks. I don't want this thread to get off-topic, but first I need to make my avatar animated. It is just a still image now.

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

@jmcguire,

http://www.google.com/search?h.....nimated+gi
Back to Topic.
Best Regards,
Rick P.

Posted 8 years ago
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jd2066
Posts: 3814

To be fair about product activation, it really isn't that bad in Windows XP and Windows Vista SP1. Both will bug you to activate until you do so with a popup balloon but you can still use the computer during that time and activating isn't that hard to do. Just a quick internet activation or phone call to Microsoft.
I have heard of those making mistakes but a quick call to Microsoft should sort the problem out with the exception of a Microsoft activation server failure. Fortunately with Windows Vista SP1, the OS will still function in the case of another Microsoft activation server failure.

Now, Windows Genuine Advantage and Windows Vista RTM product activation are a different story then the two above. Both will nag at you a lot until you validate and lock you out of features if you don't do it in time.
The good news is that the bad design of product activation in Windows Vista RTM has been fixed and Windows Genuine Advantage is only used on optional products like Internet Explorer 7.
The bad news is that Windows Genuine Advantage is annoying, especially when you use Firefox and need to restart the browser to install the plugin just to download something.

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

@jd2066,
You are just PLAIN WRONG !!!!
I use only (Genuine) MS Software on each individual machine with its own Full Copy of XP Pro.
Each Machine will (NOT) Product Activate over the the net any longer after a clean install.
I MUST CALL MS EACH AND EVERY TIME I DO A CLEAN INSTALL AND PRODUCT ACTIVATE MANUALLY ALL OF MY MS SOFTWARE.
THIS NOT BECAUSE OF AN MS SERVER FAILURE OR BAD LINE CONNECTION.
IT'S MS POLICY.
------------------------
Don't Post that MS "BS" about how easy it is to PA because you don't know what you are talking about.
As a MS Partner, it (infuriates) me to hear MS propaganda from those who do (not) know how MS really operates.
Rick P.

Posted 8 years ago
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jd2066
Posts: 3814

@raphoenix: Ok, well I was only refering to the first install of Windows done and hardware changes after that.
That it is based on my experiance with Windows XP Home on my computer and only one or two clean installs.
Also when I've needed to reinstall Windows XP Home on people's computers I work on. Both seemed to activate just fine.
[ Partial Post Removed by request of poster ]

Sorry about the misinformation, I should have been more clear about my limited experiance with Product Activation before.

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

@jd2066,
Apology Accepted.

Regards and Happy Holidays,
Rick P.

edit by mod at member request. Y'all behave, m'kay?

Posted 8 years ago
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jd2066
Posts: 3814

[ Removed by request of poster ]

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

@jd2066,
OK, Back To Topic.
Regards,
Rick P.

Posted 8 years ago
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jd2066
Posts: 3814

@raphoenix: Indeed. Anything else can go to the Off Topic forum.

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

OK

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

Posted for Windows 7 Info.
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December 30, 2008 (Computerworld) Downloads of a new build of Microsoft Corp.'s upcoming Windows 7 operating system have soared in the past two days, with thousands of systems now pulling pirated copies from BitTorrent sites.
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Searches today on the Pirate Bay BitTorrent site, for example, returned multiple listings of Windows 7 Build 7000, which Microsoft identifies as a beta candidate in the file name. The torrent is a disk image of the 32-bit version of Windows 7 Ultimate; a 64-bit version is not yet available.
---------------------------

The most heavily trafficked Windows 7 BitTorrent on Pirate Bay showed more than 4,300 "seeders" — the term for a computer that has a complete copy of the torrent file — and about 7,500 "leechers," or computers that have downloaded only part of the complete torrent. Less popular BitTorrents of the file on Pirate Bay claimed an additional 1,000 seeders and more than 3,000 leechers.
---------------------------

On Saturday, a day after the first copies of Build 7000 appeared on BitTorrent, Pirate Bay's prime listing showed less than half as many seeders as it did today.
---------------------------

Similar increases could be seen on other BitTorrent sites. For example, Mininova listed almost 20 Windows 7 BitTorrents — some of them duplicates of the ones that appeared in searches of Pirate Bay. Two of the torrents on the Mininova site had more than 4,500 seeders each.
---------------------------
Rick P.

Posted 8 years ago
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whs
Posts: 17584

Here are some performance comparisons (W7 - Vista) that were done in Germany. Other than Installation and IE8, there are no new news.

Posted 8 years ago
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Spacegold
Posts: 594

Why is it so difficult for Microsoft to show the discipline to incorporate backward compatibility into the OS design? The need for backward compatibily is almost universal, except for first time computer users, who are a definite minority. If backward compatibility were set down as a design requirement, system programmers would be a little more restrained about swinging wild and loose with new code, and Operating Systems would evolve rather than go through revolutiomary trauma. Expand the capabilities all you want, MS, all you think you can sell, but leave the hooks that the legacy software needs. XP refined and matured the W9X line without leaving much legacy software in the dirt. Vista is a revolution instead of evolving from XP. Each new version of an operating system is not a legitimate opportunity to completely revolutionize system design. Sorry I cannot agree with those who want the systems designed for the minority users.

Posted 8 years ago
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whs
Posts: 17584

Spacegold, You are absolutely right in terms of program compatibility. There must be overlap between versions - usually with a compatibility interface (although you don't want to support stone age stuff). But for the rest, I prefer revolution if it really advances the system. Legacy is the biggest enemy of progress and it is that which bloats the system more than anything else. I bet you 75% of the Vista code need not be there - if it was not for legacy. Of course, an inherent reason is that they do not get around of rewriting it so fast. In my 35 years in software development I saw nothing more detrimental to progress than backward compatibility. But I guess the world moves slowly and people don't want to change - that is the main problem. Protecting an investment in a large program library is one thing, keeping people from having to learn new things is another thing.

Posted 8 years ago
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BobJam
Posts: 1052

Hey whs,

Yes, "people don't want to change" seems to be a perpetual curse on the human race. When we get comfortable with something, any change seems unnecessary. The thinking is "Geezzzz . . . it was working fine until you guys 'improved' it!" Nevermind that we thought the exact same thing for the previous "change" until we got used to the "new" change, and then that became what we were comfortable with (the "minority" becomes the "majority"). Reinforcing the reluctance to change is the fact that a lot of us want to "protect" that "investment in a large program library", as you put it so well. Also reinforcing the reluctance to change is that some of these changes actually ARE worse.

VISTA is a good example. While some people have adjusted to it and come to think of it as better than XP, a lot and maybe more have not. Thus the "improvement" to VISTA has only confirmed for many of us that change is worse.

As far as backwards complatibility, I agree with you that there is "nothing more detrimental to progress than backward compatibility" and "legacy . . . bloats the system more than anything else".

Posted 8 years ago
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BobJam
Posts: 1052

From the latest "Windows Secrets" newsletter:

"Vista is looking more and more like the Edsel of the computer industry. Presumably as a result of slow uptake by corporations and individual users, Microsoft last month confirmed that it will allow OEMs and smaller-scale "system builders" to pay as late as May 30, 2009, for copies of XP ordered by Jan. 31.

Combine this news with reports that Windows 7 may ship as early as mid-2009, and it looks like Microsoft is ready to relegate Vista to the binary scrapheap. Maybe the company's recent $300 million marketing push for Vista wasn't so successful as Microsoft claims it was.

If Windows 7 turns out to have better performance and reliability than Vista, as some reviewers believe, the OS may gain a measure of relieved acceptance from end users after only a few months on the market.

Dell has gradually been inflating its surcharge for "downgrading" a PC from Vista to XP. The bite rose last June from U.S. $20 to $50, then spiked in October to $100, and now is a whopping $150. The fact that Dell's customers appear to be willing to pay this amount or more to avoid Vista may be the greatest indictment of Microsoft's unloved OS.

The reality is that the Redmond software giant has been forced by popular opinion to provide customers with a Vista-free option — an extended life for XP — more than two years after Vista's rollout. Depending on your point of view, this concession can be interpreted negatively as an act of desperation or more positively as a burst of marketing acumen on the company's part."

Very interesting . . .

Posted 8 years ago
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