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Video cards

(30 posts)
  • Started 8 years ago by JKay
  • Latest reply from drifta
  • Topic Viewed 3234 times

JKay
Posts: 78

Okay so I'm torn between the NVIDIA 9800 GX2 and the NVIDIA GTX 280, all the reviews say the GTX has a higher minimum fps but the GX2 seems to have better overall... I dont know, any help?

Posted 8 years ago
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jack7h3r1pp3r
Posts: 2815

here are the specs:

GPU/VPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 280

RAMDAC: Dual 400 MHz

Fill Rate per Second: 48.2 Billion pixels

Additional Features: HDTV Ready
SLI Ready
DirectX 10
OpenGL 2.1
PCI Express 2.0
HDCP Enabled (Dual-Link)

Maximum Resolution: 2560 x 1600 (Digital)

Video Memory: 1GB

Memory Type: GDDR3

Core Clock: 602 MHz

Memory Interface: 512-bit

Memory Clock: 2214 MHz

Shader Clock: 1296 MHz

Stream Processors: 240

Memory Bandwidth: 141.7GB/sec.

Interface Type: PCI Express 2.0

Interface Speed: x16

Connector(s): Dual DVI (Dual Link)
HDTV/S-Video
VGA (w/DVI to VGA Adapter)

Multiple Monitors Support: Yes

GPU/VPU: NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GX2

RAMDAC: Dual 400 MHz

Fill Rate per Second: 76.8 Billion pixels

Additional Features: HDCP Enabled
DirectX 10
OpenGL 2.1
PCI Express 2.0
Vista Certified

Maximum Resolution: 2560 x 1600 (Digital) - Dual Link DVI

Video Memory: 1GB ( 2 x 512MB)

Memory Type: GDDR3

Core Clock: 600 MHz

Memory Interface: 512-bit (256-bit per GPU)

Memory Clock: 2000 MHz

Shader Clock: 1500 MHz

Stream Processors: 256 (128 per GPU)

Memory Bandwidth: 128.0GB/sec.

Interface Type: PCI Express 2.0

Interface Speed: x16

Connector(s): HDMI
Dual DVI (Dual Link)

Multiple Monitors Support: Yes

this is where i pulled them from:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/app.....CatId=2306

http://www.tigerdirect.com/app.....CatId=3669

Posted 8 years ago
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jack7h3r1pp3r
Posts: 2815

i think that the gtx 280 is a little better except for the filter rate then the 9800 is a little faster there but other than that the other is better

Posted 8 years ago
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whs
Posts: 17584

These guys look like you can heat the room with them.

Posted 8 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

Hold up. Isn't a GX2 essentially 2 GPUs in one? The GTX is equal or better with just one GPU -- that's amazing! The single GTX may require less power, generate less heat, and require less cooling. I don't know if there are any games that can't recognize 2 GPUs, but the GTX would be the clear winner in such a situation.

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

Posted 8 years ago
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drifta
Posts: 446

i would personally go for the GTX because its FPS is good and it has a single GPU.
like ScottW said i dont think there are many games that recognise 2 GPUs

it is really upto you, they both seem good. i dont know the price of each so i guess u should go with which ever is cheaper

Posted 8 years ago
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jonhill987
Posts: 161

"I don't think there are many games that recognise 2 GPUs"

Second.

Posted 8 years ago
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JKay
Posts: 78

Okay so I've got it down to the GTX 260, now I dont know why but I've built a couple of computers on newegg and gone almost all out on GPUs now I'm torn, I can 1 super NVIDIA watercooled, factory OCed, the works... OR I could get 2 of ATIs best new card for $100 (USD) more. I've been out of the video card race for awhile, last time I was shopping for one ATI was dominating over NVIDIA, I know NVIDIA has been ahead since then but these ATI cards have really good reviews, even being compared to NVIDIA... anyways here's the specs for the NVIDIA card:
Model
Brand BFG Tech
Model BFGEGTX260896H2OCWE
Interface
Interface PCI Express 2.0 x16
Chipset
Chipset Manufacturer NVIDIA
GPU GeForce GTX 260
Core clock 675MHz (vs. 576MHz standard)
Stream Processors 192 processing cores
Memory
Memory Clock 2326MHz (vs. 1998MHz standard)
Memory Size 896MB
Memory Interface 448-bit
Memory Type GDDR3
3D API
DirectX DirectX 10
OpenGL OpenGL 2.1
Ports
HDMI 1 via Adapter
DVI 2
TV-Out HDTV / S-Video Out
General
RAMDAC 400 MHz
Max Resolution 2560 x 1600
SLI Supported Yes
Cooler Water Cooling
System Requirements 525W PCI Express-compliant system power supply with a combined 12V current rating of 38A or more*
Two 6-pin PCI Express supplementary power connectors -or- One 6-pin PCI Express and two 4-pin peripheral supplementary power connectors
NOTE: For the power requirements of multiple GeForce GTX 280-based graphics cards in an NVIDIA SLI configuration, please visit www.bfgtech.com/slipower
Power Connector 2 x 6 Pin
Dual-Link DVI Supported Yes
HDCP Ready Yes

and the ATI:
Model
Brand DIAMOND
Model 4870PE5512
Interface
Interface PCI Express 2.0 x16
Chipset
Chipset Manufacturer ATI
GPU Radeon HD 4870
Core clock 750MHz
Stream Processors 800 Stream Processing Units
Memory
Memory Clock 1800MHz
Memory Size 512MB
Memory Interface 256-bit
Memory Type GDDR5
3D API
DirectX DirectX 10.1
OpenGL OpenGL 2.0
Ports
HDMI 1 via Adapter
DVI 2
TV-Out HDTV / S-Video Out
General
RAMDAC 400 MHz
Max Resolution 2560 x 1600
CrossFire Supported Yes
Cooler With Fan
System Requirements ATI Radeon HD 4870 and ATI Radeon HD 4850 System Requirements PCI Express based PC is required with one X16 lane graphics slot available on the motherboard 450 Watt or greater power supply with 75 Watt 6-pin PCI Express power connector recommended (550 Watt and two 6-pin connectors for dual ATI CrossFireX) Certified power supplies are recommended 1GB of system memory recommended Installation software requires an optical drive DVD playback requires DVD drive Blu-ray / HD DVD playback requires a Blu-ray / HD DVD drive For a complete ATI CrossFireX system, additional ATI Radeon™ HD 4800 series graphics card(s), an ATI CrossFireX Ready motherboard and one ATI CrossFireX Bridge Interconnect cable per board (included) are required.
Power Connector 2 x 6 Pin
Dual-Link DVI Supported Yes
HDCP Ready Yes
Packaging

Anybody experience both of these and have any advice? thanks in advance

Posted 8 years ago
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JKay
Posts: 78

Oh and another thing that isnt on there, I went with the 260 over the 280 (NVIDIA side) because the 260 was a single slot and with the lastest and greatest NVIDIA (790i) mobo it's a bit tight if you want to eventually go SLi and use the PCIe 1x slots

Posted 8 years ago
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jack7h3r1pp3r
Posts: 2815

well the nvidia card looks like it is a bit better than the ati but if you have two then i think that would blow away the nvidia but if you had two of the nvidia's then thats a whole new story :)

Posted 8 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

JKay, it's hard to make an apples-to-apples comparison with just the specs listed. For example, all of the clock numbers -- core clock, memory clock -- are applied to different GPUs. There is more memory on the Nvidia card, 896 MB to 512 MB, but if you get two of the ATIs that will total 1 GB. There are 800 stream processors on the ATI GPU to the Nvidia's 192. Is that for real? 800 stream processors is amazing!

When you say you could get one factory OC'd water-cooled Nvidia, is that BFG board the one? I would find that odd since the GTX 260 is the scaled-down version of the GTX 280. If you're going to soup up a chip, why not start with the faster one? All that overclocking and special cooling will not add vertex shaders and stream processors.

Here's a suggestion. Get one ATI 4870 board and try your games on it. If it doesn't give enough oomph, add a second one.

Posted 8 years ago
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JKay
Posts: 78

I never really thought about just getting one of the ATIs and trying it out, okay last question about the topic... is it a good idea running ATI cards on a NVIDIA chipset mobo?

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

@ScottW,

GOOD POST !!

I'm still trying to figure out what the Vertex Shaders, etc., etc., nomenclature means in Gamer Video Cards.

Regards,
Rick P.

Posted 8 years ago
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jack7h3r1pp3r
Posts: 2815

ya i don't know that one either

Posted 8 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

JKay, since we are talking about leaving room for a dual card upgrade, you should NOT use an Nvidia motherboard chipset with ATI Radeon GPUs. The Nvidia motherboard chipset is SLI-ready, but not CrossFireX ready.

Posted 8 years ago
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jack7h3r1pp3r
Posts: 2815

oh ya i missed that part of it you always seem to find the smallest things scottw

Posted 8 years ago
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JKay
Posts: 78

I was afraid of that... it's a shame I really like the 790i mobo, would anyone recommend using an AMD CPU with this? I was going to use a 2.6ghz intel core 2 quad, but seems AMD makes a quad core 2.6ghz CPU. Would there be an advantage to using AMD with ATI since they are one in the same?

Posted 8 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

@Jack, God is in the details.

@JKay, you picked your GPU first, which tells me that you are building a gaming rig. You might ask yourself if the games that you will play can benefit from a quad core CPU. Last I checked, there were few games that were multi-core aware and the conventional wisdom was that you would be better off with a dual-core CPU running at a higher clock speed. Of course, in gaming things change fast so this may no longer be true.

I'm pasting a link to an article at Tom's Hardware where they review the latest AMD chipset with an onboard Radeon GPU. They call this the first *true* AMD/ATI chip since AMD's acquisition of ATI. One benefit that AMD claims is for Hybrid CrossFire. This allows the chipset GPU to assist the PCI-E card GPU. I have not seen any reviews of Hybrid CrossFire, but it is a neat concept on paper. Even with only one graphics adapter, you could still be running a dual GPU configuration. Here's the chipset review:
http://www.tomshardware.com/re.....,1785.html

Posted 8 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

Doh! I have seen a review that touches on Hybrid CrossFire -- it's the one I just posted! See page 13 of the 780G chipset review at Tom's for benchmark results with Hybrid CrossFire.

Posted 8 years ago
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drifta
Posts: 446

it seems that recently ati have got some new cards out the 4800HD or something like that and another one..i cnat remebr which ones but they seem to be getting better reviews that the nvidia cards here in australia

Posted 8 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

In a perfect example of apropos, I recently saw an article about ATI releasing the 4870 X2. Just like the 3870 X2, which it replaces, the 4870 X2 puts 2 GPUs on one board. So, it only takes up one slot for plugging in. I have no idea how many slots it may take up due to overhang, but I seem to recall that the 3870 X2 was relatively narrow. Here's the article:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10013992-64.html

Unfortunately, the first cards with this dual-GPU configuration are very expensive, but it creates some interesting possibilities. For example, you could start with 2 GPUs in one PCI-E slot and at some later date add 2 more in a second PCI-E slot. Or, just add 1 for a total of 3 GPUs, if that's all you need. Would Hybrid Crossfire be available with these cards? I don't see why not. That means a 4870 X2 on one of the new AMD/ATI chipsets would give you 3 GPUs to start with and as many as 5(!) if that's even supported. Well, it's fun to speculate. :-)

Posted 8 years ago
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JKay
Posts: 78

Well I get back home in about 2 maybe 3 months, and I dont plan on building anything until then, maybe by then NVIDIA will have their GTX 290 out and ATi will have their HD 4870 x2, and I'll have to compare the 2. Although I have a feeling the 290 will be the better of the 2, just like the comparision between the 9800 GX2 and the GTX 280 that starting this topic, but we'll have to wait and see

Posted 8 years ago
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JKay
Posts: 78

Another thing that pulls me towards NVIDIA chipsets (although if it wasnt for this ATi would win hands down) is the fact that they support DDR3 RAM, which can double the speed of DDR2 RAM... but then again ATi/ AMD might have something getting ready to come out that supports it.

Posted 8 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

This game of one-upmanship has been going on for many years and is likely to continue into the future.

As for a comparison of memory, the key measurement is bandwidth no matter what the technology. These GPUs are all using GDDR memory these days which is optimized for graphics processing. The older ATI Radeon 3870 can use GDDR3 or GDDR4 memory and the new 4870 uses GDDR5 memory. The Nvidia GTX 280 uses GDDR3 memory but, as I said, it's the bandwidth that counts not the technology. Currently, the GTX 280 has a memory bandwidth of 141 GB/s to the Radeon 4870's 115 GB/s. However, the 4870 X2 effectively doubles the memory bandwidth to a theoretical 230 GB/s.

As a sign of just how fast these things change, when I just went to ATI's website, they claim to have the fastest graphics card available today. Then in the fine print it says "today" means August 12, 2008!

Posted 8 years ago
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JKay
Posts: 78

Okay now I've searched and researched everything about these 2 cards, I found the 4870s on newegg for about 550, and it takes 2 slots so I'll be blocking a PCIe 1x slot or a regular PCI slot with it. I dont know if they have a waterblock for the ATi 4870 x2 yet, but I cant find one, if someone else can... please post a link, beacause that would take the cake right there, no more searching, I can finally go back to ATi with confidence

Posted 8 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

JKay, if you're not planning to do this build for 2-3 months from now, you should probably just keep an eye on the space race between ATI and Nvidia. By the time you're ready to buy, Nvidia may have leapfrogged ATI and maybe ATI will have leapfrogged them and so on!

It looks to me as if all of the GTX 280 cards are double-wides, as well, at least those that are air-cooled. Amazingly enough, though the 4870 X2 was only announced a few days ago, I found this announcement of a company planning to release a water cooler for it:
http://www.asetek.com/content/view/460/132/

As usual, one of the benefits of all of this competition is driving prices down and features up. Since the 4870 X2 was announced by ATI, Nvidia has dropped the price of the GTX 280. Older cards from both manufacturers are coming down in price. This is probably a good time to pick up a Radeon 3870 or GeForce 9800 series card.

Posted 8 years ago
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JKay
Posts: 78

I am keeping a close eye on this, with the quick release of this new ATi card, they might come ahead in the race, and when I get to a computer where everything isnt blocked I'll have to check out that waterblock, hopfully it turns the card into a single slot like the waterblock does for the GTX 280, one of the advantages to water cooling, and I'm hoping AMD/ATi releases an up to date motherboard with the integrated graphics and DDR3 RAM support, so I can take full advantage of Crossfire and the Hybrid Crossfire. ScottW really has a point where you could have a potential 5 processing units on graphics, a total of 3200 stream processors, 4gig of GDDR5 OC'd to about 2200MHz and a core clock OC'd to about 800MHz. I just need to mobo's to catch up with the video cards!!

Posted 8 years ago
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JKay
Posts: 78

well so far I've seen a picture of one of the waterblocks for the 4870 X2 made by CoolIT, all I can say is yeah... it's a waterblock, but it might work good. It's got right angles all over it, even though by the picture it looks like they yet again made a 2 slot card into 1, it doesnt look like it'd cool it very well, and they claim a 13.5% OC on the core and 11% OC on the memory to be safe with this waterblock. Now I dont OC very much, but that doesn't seem like much if we're talking a waterblock... but then again I have almost no experience in OCing, or water cooling for that matter. Closest I've ever been was helping a buddy of mine rig a celeron 300 with a Liquid N20 cooling system and OCing it to 1.2GHz... it worked for about a week, then the mobo cracked. I think it got too cold, or it might have been the mobo heating up around the chip under load and the N2O cooling it too fast causing the crack, who knows.

Posted 8 years ago
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drifta
Posts: 446

ive never ever used nvidia graphics card and have always preferred to go with ati. i dont know why though.
Perhaps because ati has a good graphics card for a reasonable price

Posted 8 years ago
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