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Startup type in "Services"

(42 posts)
  • Started 8 years ago by whs
  • Latest reply from LH
  • Topic Viewed 8466 times

whs
Posts: 17584

Anybody know what the difference between "Automatic" and "Manual" is ? My assumption was that with "automatic" the service is started at boot and with "manual" it is started when needed (called by a program). But I am not sure whether that definition is correct.

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

@whs,
More about services than you care to know and kept very current including Win7.
Just keep digging deeper and deeper through the links after you begin.
http://www.blackviper.com/
Best Regards,
Rick P.

Posted 8 years ago
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whs
Posts: 17584

Rick, you wear me out. I am sure I can find the answer when I dig for 5 hours, but I am lazy. I thought you guys would know the answer. I am in the middle of preparing a class for my local computer club, and the question popped up in my mind when I was on the "Services" page. Hate to wing the answer in case it comes up.
I am just done with the outline of my first (of 4) chapter - after 4 hours of work. Now I have to put meat on the bone. It will probably take me 3 to 4 weeks of preparation for the whole thing including the write-up and the video capture of a "dry run". It is supposed to become a standard class at the club. I don't even have a title yet, but it is mostly about tricks and tips and some of the easier system internals and tools such as Process Explorer et al.

Posted 8 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

whs, you are correct! Automatic means that it will start with Windows. Manual means it will start when needed, and only when called.

Posted 8 years ago
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whs
Posts: 17584

ScottW, thanks. That helps.
Btw: this is a very good link regarding "Services". But I was too tired to read all that. LOL

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

@whs,
---
Definition of Windows Service States.
=====================================
Automatic: The Service is started automatically as part of the Windows boot process.
---
Manual: The Service can be started by another application or process that needs it, but is off by default.
Once it is started, the service will remain on until it is manually stopped or the system is rebooted.
---
Disabled: The Service will not start unless this condition is changed.
=====================================
You may use these definitions in your presentation.
---
Regards,
Rick P.

Posted 8 years ago
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whs
Posts: 17584

That's what I was looking for. Thanks Rick. You are a friend. Where did you find those?

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

@whs,
---
Was in an old Win2K programing book in my library. Changed a few words and used some wording off the net to make the definitions easier to understand by all in your class when I re-read your posting this morning.
---
Think most sites use almost the same terms as they came from MS originally.
---
Remember; I get accused of using too much Cryptic Language by some folks. (LOL)
---
Best Regards,
Rick P.

Posted 8 years ago
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Scott
Posts: 5618

There is Automatic-Delayed start-up in Vista too.

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

@whs,
OOPS !!!! Don't Have ANY Vista or Win7 Books or Documention - Sorry About That. :( :(
Best Regards,
Rick P.

Posted 8 years ago
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BobJam
Posts: 1052

And remember, even if a service is on manual . . . once it's called up it stays running 'till you either stop it through the services applet or you reboot your machine.

I had forgotten this fact myself, and happened to run a HJT log and saw that a service was running that I didn't have on "automatic" . . . gave me the WTF raised eyebrow. Turns out I had started an app that needed it, shut that app down, but the service stayed running.

So you might want to highlight this to your students. Is the second sentence in Rick's definition of "manual", but it's often overlooked.

Posted 8 years ago
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madmacs
Posts: 1438

lol, "gave me the WTF raised eyebrow"!!! Just cracked me up :D

Posted 8 years ago
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LH
Posts: 20002

I used that system when I first started. Some things have to be on Automatic (you can't change that). Others things you need to be on Automatic.
Set the rest to manual, and at the end of each day, for 3 months, note which have started. You are then pretty safe to disable anything that has never started.
Now I use it as a diagnostic tool on other peoples systems to help solve problems.

Posted 8 years ago
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whs
Posts: 17584

Thanks guys for the further clarifications. Thanks to you my students will get more educated than i ever was - LOL.

@LH, is that method really safe. E.g. I think to remember that the snipping tool depends on the presence of the tablet PC option. I wonder what happens to it if you disable the "Tablet PC Input Service" even if it has not been used directly. Have to try that once.

Posted 8 years ago
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LH
Posts: 20002

Now how did I know you would come back with "Snipping Tool", lol. Yes, if you use it, you need "Tablet PC Input Service" as Automatic or Manual.

Posted 8 years ago
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whs
Posts: 17584

just testing - LOL. But on a more serious note: My point is that there may be "hiden vices" that are not obvious from the description of the service. Maybe you remember my problem with the flickering cursor when using the WMP and a flash drive in the box. Who would have known that there was a relationship with the "Windows Driver Foundation" service. Scott pointed that out to me (no idea how he ever found out) and since I disabled that bugger there is peace in the box. But reading the description of this service would have never given me that clue.

Posted 8 years ago
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LH
Posts: 20002

You look to see which other services are dependent, is all.

Posted 8 years ago
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whs
Posts: 17584

maybe, but many times it says "none" - e.g. Tablet PC.

Posted 8 years ago
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LH
Posts: 20002

Dig deeper

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

With Every new MS O/S, I've had to purchase a Resource Book plus a bunch of Other Documentation.
---
Normally one can just [ Double ] the cost of the MS Retail O/S Edition to estimate the real cost to purchase a new MS Operating System including the documentation.
---
This "rule of thumb" has worked out pretty close over the years.
---
Example of Just One Book Needed:
http://www.microsoft.com/learn...../9536.aspx
---
Regards,
Rick P.

Posted 8 years ago
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LH
Posts: 20002

Or learn the Registry :)

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

That's in the "bunch of Other Documentation" I mentioned.

Posted 8 years ago
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LH
Posts: 20002

Rick. You have all registry entries in your head ?

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

NO (LOL) - That's why I have to purchase reference books.
---
Think JD2066 is only Member which has memorized Registry. (LOL) :)

Posted 8 years ago
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LH
Posts: 20002

I don't think even Justin. There's only a few hundred thousand after all.

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

(LOL) For Sure !!!!

Posted 8 years ago
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whs
Posts: 17584

Rick, this is a nice book you posted. But $60 is kind of pricey.

Posted 8 years ago
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LH
Posts: 20002

whs. After buying my first computer, just an OS, no programs. I spent 6 months learning it all by trial and error. Learned to program in assembler with that too. Remember those days ? No books, No Internet.

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

@whys,
---
Books are pricey but read my post above concerning [ doubling ] the cost of the O/S to get the O/S documentation.
---
That book is just the beginning considering it was co-authored by MS Vista Team.
---
Every MS O/S since Dos has had the Resource Kit.
---
I've still got the old MS Win98 3 inch thick Resource kit book. It was $70 bucks so price has come down.
---
You should take a look at MS programming language manuals if you want to see high prices.
---
NO telling what my computer hobby has cost me over the years - kind of like some folk's boating hobby - expensive !!
---
EDIT: Remember the IBM documentation manuals ???? Whew !!!!! .. Forrest of trees cut down just to make paper. (LOL)

Posted 8 years ago
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whs
Posts: 17584

Ya, I remember the IBM books - miles of them. But they were for free - at least for me. My favorite was "/360 Principles of Operation". Used that a lot in the early 60's when I was still programming.

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

@whs,
I just figured out why I am always posting to OPs to get and look in their manuals - OUT OF PURE HABIT. (LOL) (LOL)

Posted 8 years ago
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BobJam
Posts: 1052

Danger, danger, Will Robinson!

I started messing with Services one time . . . even read Black Viper's guidelines.

Within a day or so I had messed up my machine so bad that I decided to do a clean install just to unscrew it.

Part of the problem was that I didn't write down which services I had changed, and then went back in and changed something else . . . in an endless circle of screw ups. I also violated the cardinal rule of just doing one change at a time and seeing if that screws things up. I changed multiple things all at once, hence I had no idea which change screwed things up.

LH's method may have prevented that, but I got "change happy" and very stupid, so I paid for that mistake.

My advice to students based on that experience:

1. If you want to try changing things, just do one at a time and give it a few days to see if that SINGLE change screws things up.

2. Write down all the default settings for each service BEFORE you start changing things.

3. Write down what you changed PRECISELY. Some services have similar names, and if you don't write down EXACTLY what you changed, it can get confusing . . . "Now what did I change?"

4. Similar to the rule for Registry keys, DON'T do anything to a service unless you know EXACTLY what that service is for.

I've since changed some service settings, but not without following my own guidelines above. I would discourage student geeks from getting "change happy" like I did. You've got to be very methodical about the whole thing . . . don't just jump in and start changing things willy-nilly. That may seem like simple common sense, but "simple common sense" is one of the first things to go when you THINK you know what you're doing. Slow down!!!! Do one at a time no matter how tempting it is to change other things that you think "can't hurt".

Advice from someone who jumped in and THOUGHT he knew what he was doing. Changing service settings can be very treacherous . . . DON'T take it lightly!

Posted 8 years ago
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LH
Posts: 20002

Thanks BobJam. But services are not a big problem. The registry yes.
(If you aint got a clue what you are doin')

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

@LH and Bob,
That's why I say the O/S books and documentation are so very important and a good investment to make. ;)
Regards,
Rick P.

Posted 8 years ago
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LH
Posts: 20002

No books. Good backup system. And experiment, experiment, experiment. Hey, one day you could be famous :)

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

What's the old song title ?? - "Any Day Now" :) :)


Posted 8 years ago
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LH
Posts: 20002

That one ? I never heard it before.

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

Not quite fair.
The Peonage Doesn't Have Embedding Privileges.
All I could do was throw up a link. :( :(
Regards,
Rick P.

Posted 8 years ago
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LH
Posts: 20002

You have the chance :)

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

(LOL) Not me mate. Don't have the good temperament it takes like you folks. :)

Posted 8 years ago
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whs
Posts: 17584

BobJam, There is an "Export List" icon on the top of the "Services" window. But you have to export it as a .csv file, else it is awfully scrambled and very hard to read. But then at least you have a record each step of the way.

Posted 8 years ago
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LH
Posts: 20002

WHAT ? We are mean and spiteful. We do nasty things to smal....:)

Posted 8 years ago
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