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Problem with installing XP on a Vista machine

(61 posts)
  • Started 9 years ago by Antman
  • Latest reply from The Geek
  • Topic Viewed 17960 times

Antman
Posts: 164

I read through the article about this and I'm very keen to get this to work.

I hit a snag when I used the Shrink Volume feature, it says I can only shrink 413MB, even though I have 24.95GB of free space. It says that the size of available shrink space can be restricted if snapshots or pagefiles are enabled on the volume. I don't know what this means.

I've taken a screenshot of the shrink dialogue for your inspection:
http://img11.imagevenue.com/im.....1151lo.jpg

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks in advance,

Ant

Posted 9 years ago
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The Geek
Posts: 2059

I think the problem here is that your system restore is using too much space, or there are too many snapshots from system restore. You have a few options:

Disable system restore entirely
https://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-vista/disable-system-restore-in-windows-vista/

Reduce the space of system restore (note you can also use these instructions to see how much it is currently using)
https://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-vista/reduce-system-restores-disk-usage-in-vista/

Another angle you could take if you want is to use the gparted livecd, which is a bootable cd that lets you easily partition any disk... it's just slightly more technical, though.
http://gparted.sourceforge.net/livecd.php

I'd probably also try and clean up some files... the disk cleanup wizard can help you with that.

Posted 9 years ago
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Antman
Posts: 164

Thanks for the speedy reply. I've reduced the space of system restore and after some disk cleaning I now have over 40GB of free disk space, but still can only shrink 413MB.

I'll look into that gparted livecd then, unless you can think of another reason why I am only getting 413MB after taking those steps.

Thanks again,

Ant

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I reset the system restore also, so it is only using about 130MB out of an allocated 430MB after creating a new restore point.

Posted 9 years ago
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The Geek
Posts: 2059

I'll look into that... you aren't the first person that has mentioned this to me, and I actually noticed it as well. I'll figure out why that's happening and write about it.

The gparted cd should definitely work, and is a useful skill to learn... it's extremely useful.

You should be able to potentially use the diskpart.exe command line utility to repartition the drive as well... it's just not quite as easy to use.

Posted 9 years ago
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Scott
Posts: 5618

I'll second that. I had never burned an ISO disk or used anything Linux before I reformatted and set up a new partition for Vista.

Honestly, it was fairly Scott-proof, very hard to mess things up ;)

Posted 9 years ago
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Antman
Posts: 164

Just tried the gparted livecd boot and it didn't work. Wouldn't let me choose a new partition for my C drive. Just blanked out the 'New' option completely. I double-clicked on the C drive and it came up with a warning dialogue and a whole list of errors. I couldn't print-screen because I had to reboot, but I can do it again and write down the errors if that will help find out what is wrong.

Posted 9 years ago
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The Geek
Posts: 2059

You should resize the C: drive partition, and then you can create a new partition.

Posted 9 years ago
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Antman
Posts: 164

I should resize it to be the size it would be minus the size of the partion I want? So it's 149GB now, I resize to 139GB to get my 10GB partition for XP?

Posted 9 years ago
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The Geek
Posts: 2059

Exactly.

Posted 9 years ago
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Antman
Posts: 164

Awesomeness, I'll have a crack at that now, and thanks again for the help.

Posted 9 years ago
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supermansghost
Posts: 350

You could also try using that diskpart.exe utility in vista. it's command line, so it's not that easy to use, but I've used it before with good luck

Posted 9 years ago
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Antman
Posts: 164

I'm not much of a geek in that respect, I'm afraid. I have no previous experience with command line stuff so I would probably do something horrendous.

Anyway, the gparted thing wouldn't let me resize the C: partion by any more than 8MB, which is weird. The error message said something about the nfts and that I needed to run check disk and reboot twice after that. Well, I've used check disk once or twice in the past so I entered chkdsk /f and it said it would schedule it after the next reboot. However, nothing seemed to happen when I rebooted, no check disk dialogue or anything. I just tried it again and same deal. I'm running Vista Business and I just Googled the problem and it seems a few others have had similar issues, but I couldn't find a solution. Does the chkdsk thing only work in XP?

Posted 9 years ago
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Antman
Posts: 164

Ah I can run check disk through properties/tools on the C: drive. I'll try that.

Posted 9 years ago
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The Geek
Posts: 2059

chkdsk should work in Vista as well.

I'll look into this for you. There's clearly something strange going on with the shrink disk function.

Posted 9 years ago
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Antman
Posts: 164

Ok thanks I appreciate that. I've had enough for today now so I 'll check back here tomorrow.

Posted 9 years ago
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Antman
Posts: 164

I know I said I was done, but I couldn't resist having a quick look at the diskpart.exe after I found a tutorial on how to use it. I listed my disks, and it says that I only have 9MB free out of the 149GB total size, which is about what gparted was saying. Just thought I'd mention this in case it helps.

Posted 9 years ago
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The Geek
Posts: 2059

I'm booting up my virtual machine right now to start testing this out =)

Posted 9 years ago
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Antman
Posts: 164

Hmmm just been reading about Virtual PC. Can I just use that instead to run XP on my Vista machine? I only really need XP to run my external soundcard which I record music with. There is no Vista driver software for it yet. Can I install it through Virtual PC and use the XP driver, possibly?

Posted 9 years ago
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The Geek
Posts: 2059

You could try that... I wouldn't bet on it working, and it might be somewhat slow.

Have you tried using the XP drivers in Vista for the soundcard?

Oh, and my Vista install is doing the same thing, won't let me shrink the partition. It's good, because now I can reproduce the problem =)

Posted 9 years ago
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Antman
Posts: 164

Yeah I've tried everything to get that soundcard to work. It won't let me install the software to run it, or the driver itself. It's from Tascam and they've apparently had Vista drivers in development for about seven months now, or so they keep telling me.

Posted 9 years ago
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The Geek
Posts: 2059

I've figured out why the vista shrink isn't letting you use any space...

The shrink feature won't let you shrink the volume if it's got immovable system files at the end of the partition, like the hibernation file or the pagefile. I'm researching to see the easiest way to fix this. and defrag the volume properly (not sure if vista defrag will do the trick)

A number of places I've read said that you can try and shrink a little bit, and then vista will let you shrink a little bit more the next time... one guy said he just kept doing it in 8gb increments until he got what he wanted. Obviously your situation is a little more ridiculous.

Posted 9 years ago
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Antman
Posts: 164

Cool, cheers. I had no luck with the virtual pc route either. I got halfway through the installation of XP and an error occured which prevented it installing. I hope that doesn't happen when I use the partition. I might try that shrink-by-increments idea. The shrink volume was offering me 413MB, so I can do that several times I suppose.

Posted 9 years ago
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supermansghost
Posts: 350

After you ran chkdsk did you try the gparted boot cd again?

Posted 9 years ago
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Antman
Posts: 164

Yeah, it just did the same thing. Said I could resize by 8MB and had a caution warning next to the drive name. Still says to run chkdsk then reboot twice, same as before.

Posted 9 years ago
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Antman
Posts: 164

Do you think it has anything to do with this 9MB unallocated shown in the shrink volume window?

http://img11.imagevenue.com/im.....1151lo.jpg

(picture is same one from earlier, drive now has 40GB free, not 24GB)

Posted 9 years ago
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supermansghost
Posts: 350

I'm wondering... maybe gparted was thinking you could expand the partition by 8mb? That would be possible... I found this, which conveniently also shows you what to do if something borks:

http://gparted.free.fr/screens.....VISTA.html

Posted 9 years ago
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The Geek
Posts: 2059

It looks like the problem is that the MFT is at the very end of the partition. Here's a picture using Auslogics defrag (which is quite nice, I must say)

I think there's a way to move or defrag the MFT... looking into it.

Posted 9 years ago
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Antman
Posts: 164

Sounds like a plan.

Posted 9 years ago
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Antman
Posts: 164

You were right about that MFT business. I did some searching and found out that they can be moved with PerfectDisk:

http://www.raxco.com/products/perfectdisk2k/

I got a free 15-day trial and after one defrag with that I've now got access to all the available space on my drive in the shrink volume utility. Many thanks again for all your assistance.

Posted 9 years ago
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supermansghost
Posts: 350

Sweet!

Posted 9 years ago
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Antman
Posts: 164

Any idea how long the partitioning should take? It's been on the loading mouse pointer for about ten minutes now and I don't know if it's working or not.

Posted 9 years ago
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The Geek
Posts: 2059

It takes quite a while in some cases... took me 20 minutes on one machine earlier. It's especially slow if you have tons of files.

Posted 9 years ago
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Antman
Posts: 164

Ok this problem has not gone away. Even though the shrink volume says I have over 40GB of space, about half an hour after having chosen to shrink 10GB I get an error message saying there is not enough space on the disk. Gparted is doing what it was doing before I ran the PerfectDisk defrag. Any other ideas? Can I just buy an external hard disk and use that to run XP on?

Posted 9 years ago
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supermansghost
Posts: 350

One solution would be to wipe and reinstall with XP first, and then Vista second. You'd probably want to backup everything onto an external drive first, though.

Posted 9 years ago
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The Geek
Posts: 2059

I got the same "not enough space" error, and here's what I did:

1) ran disk cleanup wizard, removed hibernation file and all restore points
2) disabled system restore (advaned system settings, system protection tab)
3) disabled the pagefile (advanced system settings)
4) disabled hibernation option in power settings
5) disabled kernel memory dump (advanced system settings, Startup and Recovery section)
6) rebooted the machine and then deleted the c:\pagefile.sys file
7) ran power defragmenter
http://www.softpedia.com/get/S.....nter.shtml
8) ran auslogics defrag
http://www.auslogics.com/disk-defrag/index.php
9) ran the defrag utility you mentioned to move the mft

I was then able to shrink the disk successfully. You'd then want to re-enable the pagefile and the other options.

This has to be the most infuriating problem I've come across in Vista... I spent a good 8 hours troubleshooting this on my machine yesterday, and am still having very little luck with a good, repeatable solution for fixing this problem. (don't use gparted, it might screw things up unless you follow some very specific and painful steps) The second time I tried all these steps on another machine, it didn't work.

On the good side, this doesn't seem to happen when you first get a machine, only once it's been used for a while.

Posted 9 years ago
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Antman
Posts: 164

OK thanks I'm gonna try this but my machine is a few years old so fingers crossed.

Posted 9 years ago
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Antman
Posts: 164

Which part of advanced system settings lets you disable the pagefile? Oh and how do I delete the c:\pagefile.sys file?

Posted 9 years ago
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The Geek
Posts: 2059

under the Advanced tab, performance section click settings, then Advanced tab on that dialog, then Change under the virtual memory section:

Posted 9 years ago
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The Geek
Posts: 2059

To delete the paging file, you'll have to select to show hidden files and folders, and then run these commands from an administrator mode command prompt:

takeown /f C:\pagefile.sys
cacls C:\pagefile.sys /G geek:F

Replace geek with your username.

Posted 9 years ago
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Antman
Posts: 164

Ok thank you. This defrag stuff is taking forever. I'm gonna do this all tomorrow and I'll let you know how I got on.

Did you run Power Defragmenter in PowerMode or Defragment Disk Mode?

Posted 9 years ago
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The Geek
Posts: 2059

I think I used power mode... it'll actually run in a command prompt window, so stuff will go wizzing by.

Hopefully this helps you... this has been one tough nut to crack!

Posted 9 years ago
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Antman
Posts: 164

Is it best to leave the computer alone while it is running the defrag command prompt? Can I still use my browser or shall I just leave it be?

Posted 9 years ago
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The Geek
Posts: 2059

It should be fine to use it as long as it's not too slow for you =)

Posted 9 years ago
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Antman
Posts: 164

Well, the good news is, it worked! Sort of...

After all the procedures I was granted a mighty 6.31GB by the shrink volume utility and this time the shrink actually worked. You mentioned that someone else kept shrinking by 8GB until he got what he wanted. If I want to try this, do I just try and shrink the main volume again and, if I do this, does it add the new shrink ammount to the 6.31GB I have already, or does it create a thiid partion?

Posted 9 years ago
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Antman
Posts: 164

Actually, forget that. It's now saying I have no available space for shrinking and I don't think I can face going through all that again. Is 6.31GB enough space to run XP and some VST software?

Posted 9 years ago
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The Geek
Posts: 2059

That actually should be fine... you can even install the applications onto your vista partition if you needed to save space.

I'm working on an article about how to resize the destructive way with gparted... it's no picnic either.

Dual-booting is easiest when you clean install...

Posted 9 years ago
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Antman
Posts: 164

Ok, to add insult to injury, the XP install is not working and I don't know why. I chose the partion I had made to install it on and everythiong seemed to be going well. It got as far as saying it needed to reboot to continue with the installation, and when it rebooted it got hung up on the 'verifying dmi pool data' screen. It's been stuck there for about twenty minutes so I've had to come into college to use another computer to seek advice. Any ideas what I can do?

Posted 9 years ago
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Antman
Posts: 164

I can clean install if needs be. Do I just format the drive from the boot menu somehow?

Posted 9 years ago
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Antman
Posts: 164

Right, I've managed to get back into Vista by repairing the startup with my Vista DVD. I've reformatted my XP partition ready for the next attempt. Any idea why I would have had that DMI problem?

Posted 9 years ago
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thedudester
Posts: 34

Didn't you say XP used to work on this computer?

I'm not sure what that error means, will have to look it up.

Posted 9 years ago
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Antman
Posts: 164

Yeah I used to run XP before I upgraded to Vista.

Posted 9 years ago
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Antman
Posts: 164

Sorry to keep on about this crap but I feel like I'm so close now. I've managed to sort out the boot problem with easybcd, but when the xp install continues I get an error which says:

Installation failed
I:\I386\asms. Error message:incorrect function

Fatal error
One of the components Windows needs to continue setup could not be installed. Incorrect function.

I Googled this and people seem to think it's a problem with the XP cd, but I've tried a few now and no dice. Others think it's a hardware issue but it all works fine on Vista. I'm gonna give this one more day of effort tomorrow then I'm chucking this PC out of the window.

Posted 9 years ago
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The Geek
Posts: 2059

Yeah, every bit of research I've done on that error message says the cd is the problem...

I suppose there's a possibility that XP doesn't like your cd-rom drive, and isn't able to use it... other than checking for some type of speed setting in the bios I'm really at a loss.

Posted 9 years ago
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Antman
Posts: 164

Well, I've given up for now. Thank you again for all your help in this matter. I'll borrow another XP CD from someone next week and give it one more try. I read about a way to install XP from DOS using a boot disk, so I guess I could try that too, but I probably won't bother. Will just have to wait semi-patiently for the drivers I need. Lame!

Posted 9 years ago
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supermansghost
Posts: 350

Good luck! Sorry we couldn't help more.

Posted 9 years ago
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Fittersman
Posts: 3

defraging my drive didnt work, i still cant shrink my partition...

i still have a bunch at the bottom (kinda where your yellow blocks were in your picture, except mine are files of some sort) and none of the three programs will move them to the top. i really dont know what to do, ive been at this all day

Posted 9 years ago
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supermansghost
Posts: 350

You can try and use the gparted method if you are brave enough...

https://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-vista/using-gparted-to-resize-your-windows-vista-partition/

Posted 9 years ago
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Fittersman
Posts: 3

i havent got the cds of vista, all i have is a recovery dvd but that doesnt have the recover option, all it does is format the drive and make it how it was when i got the computer

i dunno if this helps answer my problem or not, but in perfectdisk when i click configuration - drive properties - excluded files there is one folder that is grayed out (so i cant change it). it is marked with an X and called System Volume Information. It has two files and an empty folder in it, SPP is the folder and MountPointManagerRemoteDatabase and tracking.log

when i went into C: and looked for these files i couldnt locate them, even with hidden files turned on

Posted 9 years ago
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Fittersman
Posts: 3

how do i get hibernation mode back now? i give up trying to shrink my partition, i should have enough room...

Posted 9 years ago
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supermansghost
Posts: 350

You can re-enable it if you follow these steps:

https://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-vista/re-enable-hibernate-option-in-windows-vista/

Posted 9 years ago
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The Geek
Posts: 2059

Hey... the first 4 page thread... cool.

Posted 9 years ago
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