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(Solved) - Installed Win7 on partion. Made too small. How can I change that?

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  • Started 7 years ago by baldeguy56
  • Latest reply from baldeguy56
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baldeguy56
Posts: 810

Hi everybody. recently I made a partion of 40gb to install Win7 RC. Now, I want to get more involved with this OS. What method is the best and safest way to migrate my files onto a new and larger partion, say1050GB, install Win7 on it, then to reclaim the 40GB to Vista. Don't quite know how I did this and shouldn't be a problem, but Vista is the default OS (D) and Win7 is listed as C. Or is there an easier method for the partion to create? I already have 1/2 of the 40GB used and I'm not really on Win7, as yet. Could you please help me to accomplish this? Thanks...Garry

Posted 7 years ago
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mikisu
Posts: 337

Would suggest you install Partition Wizard HERE. Free and outstanding.

Then you can resize the partitions to suit.

Or create a partition to the required size for either OS and clone to this custom partition.

If you only want to copy/clone data files to the new partition,the easiest way might be to clone the whole lot-remove everything which isnt needed (Windows and Program Files etc- one simple delete each).All this should be achieved in 5-10 minutes as long as the system isnt active of course.

Then work on the Doc and Settings Folder to extract the required data files,also painless, as all will be in folders.

You can also slide the partitions around in a dummy run,to see whether everything will be feasible.

The dummy resize isn't activated until you press 'Apply".

Presumably you are already using a Boot Manager.

Posted 7 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

Garry, the "best" method will depend on how things are configured now. Last I knew, you had a 500 GB hard drive that started out all partitioned for Vista:

I believe that you shrank that C partition from the picture above and installed Windows 7 in the space that was made -- is that correct? Anyway, it would help to get an updated capture of that Disk Management screen.

Mikisu, there is no "Documents and Settings" folder in Windows Vista or 7. Also, Windows Vista and 7 come with a boot manager.

Posted 7 years ago
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mikisu
Posts: 337

Really -thanks Scott!
Have W7 installed on the VM-should have known!

Posted 7 years ago
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baldeguy56
Posts: 810

ScottW, You are correct on the partion created after a Vista partion shrink, to which I installed Win7 on or around 40GB.
I can't seem to get this image thing right, yet. Don't know what I'm doing. Can we skip this or do you need this, Scott?

Posted 7 years ago
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baldeguy56
Posts: 810

Posted 7 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

Garry, you got it right, and it really helps. The first thing that I see that makes me wonder is that the Vista partition is assigned the volume letter C. You said above that Vista is the default ("D") and Windows 7 is "C". But the new Disk Management screen says the opposite, at least based on the partition labels.

Which OS were you booted into when you took this screen shot? You also said above that you're not really on Win7 yet. What does that mean?

Posted 7 years ago
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baldeguy56
Posts: 810

ScottW, Was taken in Vista. While posting and stating the Vista D, etc I was in Win7. Wanted to work from 7, but had trouble with getting into Disk Management screen to post...Garry
P.S> Why would that change like that? Is something wrong?

Posted 7 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

No, nothing is wrong. It is working correctly. Windows assigns the volume letter "C" to the partition that contains the operating system. When you boot Vista, the "Vista" partition is C and when you boot Windows 7, the "Windows 7" is C. Post twice in the same thread from a different OS and your volume letters contradict each other! It's kinda funny. :-)

Now, the next thing that is important is to backup your data. There is a small risk with any partition operation that things go terribly wrong and your partitions become inaccessible. Just in case this happens, one should always backup the data. Lost partitions can usually be recovered, but it's much easier to just restore data from a backup. Much, MUCH easier.

If you don't have an external hard drive to backup to, or your data won't fit on a small number of DVDs, you could "backup" the data from one partition to another. For example, you could copy data from "Vista" to "Windows 7" before shrinking "Vista". It's not the best backup scenario, but better than nothing.

Posted 7 years ago
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baldeguy56
Posts: 810

I have saved all the wanted files onto Vista. Unless there is something hidden within the Win7 partion that may be needed elsewhere, such in the case of a recovery, the partion can be deleted. I don't have an external drive and the partition is about 23GB. I will backup to disks if you find that necessary...Garry

Posted 7 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

Important Note: you cannot delete the partition labeled Vista because it is your System partition and contains the Windows boot manager. If the partition is deleted completely, you will get the dreaded "bootmgr is missing" error and Windows won't start.

Posted 7 years ago
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baldeguy56
Posts: 810

Absolutely we don't want to go there. But I want to keep Vista as the default OS but only give 7 some elbow room. Of nothing of a personal nature on the 7 partion...Garry

Posted 7 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

Once your data is backed up to your satisfaction, go ahead and use the Partition Wizard linked by Mikisu, above. I have not used this software myself, but it is the only free partition manager that officially support Windows 7 (and 64-bit Windows).

I expect that you are wanting to shrink "Vista" as small as possible, move "Windows 7" to the left, then expand "Windows 7" to fill the available space.

Posted 7 years ago
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baldeguy56
Posts: 810

Well, almost. Want to expand Win7 to 100GB, leaving Vista as the default OS. Thought I could delete the partion, put it back into Vista, then shrink it by 100GB to which I'll install Win7 to. Am I too far off base? I never used Partion Wizard either and am a little leary of such due to my past problems. If this is the way to go, then I'll do so. Thanks...Garry

Posted 7 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

I'm not following your steps, especially "put it back into Vista". If you delete the Windows 7 partition, then re-create it, you will either need to reinstall Win7 or restore an image of it from a backup. And from what you say, you don't have a backup image.

I suppose that with the right software, you could boot into Vista, image the Windows 7 partition and store that image in the Vista (C) partition. Delete the Windows 7 partition, shrink the Vista partition until 100 GB of space is free, create a new Win7 partition, then restore the backup image to the new partition.

Doing this kind of operation without a partition manager is possible, but involves a lot of this kind of "juggling" partitions and their data.

Posted 7 years ago
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baldeguy56
Posts: 810

I'm sorry for any misunderstanding. I meant the space left from the partition deleted (Win7=40GB) to go back to the Vista partion. Then after creating the 100GB partition from shrinking Vista I would use the DVD install of Win7 to install on the new 100GB partion.

This is all new to me. I don't know what happens to the deleted 40GB partition after it's deleted nor how to put it (40GB) back into Vista...Garry

Posted 7 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

No problems, Garry. I was just thinking that partitioning is like buying a car. Most folks only do it every few years, so you never get to be an expert.

Anyway, I understand now what you are saying, but it involves an unnecessary step. To put the 40 GB of space from Win7 back into the Vista partition would involve expanding Vista. Then if your next step is to shrink Vista, there was no need to expand it in the first place.

Since you are planning to reinstall Win7, that makes it a little easier. When you delete the Win7 partition, that part of the drive becomes "Unallocated Space" with a black bar, in place of the blue bar, in the disk map. Unallocated space can be used to create a new partition or expand the partition immediately to the left into that space. What you will want to do, instead, is shrink the Vista partition to create more unallocated space for a total of 100 GB or so. Then you will re-create the Windows 7 partition in that unallocated space and reinstall to it.

Posted 7 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

Here are instructions, step-by-step.

1. All data on "Windows 7" partition is backed up or no longer needed.
2. Boot into partition "Vista", which will be "C"
3. Launch Disk Management.
4. Right-click on the "Windows 7" partition, and select "Delete Volume..."
5. Where the partition was, you will now have roughly 40 GB of "Unallocated Space" (black bar)
6. Shrink the Vista partition by 60 GB or so. (This may be the hardest step)
7. You will now have 100 GB or so of "Unallocated Space" to the right of Vista.
8. Put the Windows 7 install DVD in the optical drive.
9. Restart and boot from the Windows 7 DVD, begin the reinstallation process.
10. When asked where to install Windows, choose the 100 GB unallocated space.

Done!

Posted 7 years ago
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baldeguy56
Posts: 810

Scott, I feel kind of silly asking this, but once Win7 partition is deleted it becomes Unallocated Space of 40GB. Do I then shrink Vista of 60GB and will that automatically be added to the already existing 40GB Unallocated Space? Does all the Unallocated Space go to the same place? Sorry for any more confusion as to my questions, but I am glad your not seeing it from my end (LOL) Garry
P.S. Will have to wait till tomorrow as I just seen the time and have to get up in few hours. Thanks for your ever present patience and for the help.

Posted 7 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

In this case, the 40 and 60 GB of unallocated space will be added together to form one 100 GB of unallocated space. Any *contiguous* unallocated space will automatically be merged. So the answer to the next question is no, the unallocated space is not all sent to the same place. It is possible to have a partition separating unallocated spaces.

Regarding step 6, the note about it possibly being hard is because it involves trying to shrink the currently running OS partition. It comes back to this article that we have discussed before.

Posted 7 years ago
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baldeguy56
Posts: 810

ScottW, Apparently Vista doesn't want to give it up. Had a small amount to shrink with the first time. Then I disabled System Restore and Page File. Bumped up to around 250GB. I put in 60GB to shrink, then Windows gives me the "Access is denied" and went down to 1140MB available for shrinkage. Just now went through disabling hibernation and system cleanup. Still giving me 1140MG. Always cleanup system so I only had 8MB of trash. So close but yet so far. Will restore everything then disable again. Maybe I can catch Vista asleep. Am I stuck with the 40GB? Bummer...Garry

Posted 7 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

Actually, there is a way to catch Vista "asleep" and it would be my preferred way to shrink an OS partition. Using a Vista install disc, you can boot into the Recovery Environment (RE) and use diskpart.exe from the Command Prompt. While in the RE, the OS partition on the hard drive is not running which means it is easier to make changes to it. The problem is that diskpart is a command line and not user-friendly like the Disk Management console.

In diskpart, you can run the following command, which makes no changes, to find out how much space can be shrunk:

shrink querymax

You can run it in Vista and it may say 1140 MB. If you run it from the RE, it will probably be a bigger number.

Posted 7 years ago
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baldeguy56
Posts: 810

ScottW, Can I do the same thing with a Vista Recovery Disk, which is all that I have. I did put it in and rebooted, but it acts like it wants to install Vista. Didn't see any RE, but only went as far as the asking to type in Serial Key. Should I of went further? Garry

Posted 7 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

Yes, that will work. To get to the Recovery Environment, you select "Repair Your Computer" instead of "Install".

EDIT: it looks like this from a Vista disc --

Posted 7 years ago
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baldeguy56
Posts: 810

Guess it's this little cloud over my head. I can't get into Repair only install. Don't get to the place where your snapshot shows. Have tried 3 times. I'm just going to burn a recovery disk other than the one CP gave me and try again...Garry

Posted 7 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

Garry, I think I see what's happening. You are using a *recovery* disc provided by CyberPowerPC. I thought you were using a Vista Repair CD, so when you said recovery I didn't pick up on that. To make a proper repair disc for Vista, follow these instructions:
https://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-vista/how-to-make-a-windows-vista-repair-disk-if-you-dont-have-one/

Posted 7 years ago
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baldeguy56
Posts: 810

ScottW, Recovery disk will not go into Repair. Even tried to shrink Vista with the little handout of 1140MB and get the access is denied. So I'm going to check on that, then I'm going to make a huge bowl of popcorn and watch a movie. But haven't given up. Thanks...Garry

okay...popcorn and movie later...lol
Thanks Scott

Posted 7 years ago
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baldeguy56
Posts: 810

Hate to double post here. This link you gave me and I have given to others is downloading 3 folders. In 1 of them is a boot ISO, but receive errors when I try to burn. I don't think this is what I want. Thought there would be 1 file that is the ISO image. Trying to download again from there since I can't find it anywhere else. Oh, did I mention to you of that little cloud hanging over my head (LOL)...Garry

Posted 7 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

The link you should be using is to neosmart.net:
http://neosmart.net/blog/2008/.....-download/

There you get the .torrent file that you use to download the 120 MB ISO file. I don't know which 3 folders you are getting?

Posted 7 years ago
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baldeguy56
Posts: 810

That's the link, Scott. I downloaded it before and it was an ISO (months ago, but can't find the burned disk), but now when I unrar it, I have 3 folders namely Boot, sources and bootmgr. Within the Boot folder is an image named bootfix.bin. I really don't know why this is happening. I'm going to try to make these files bootable to disk and at the same time search for an ISO image of the Vista Repair CD. After that there's always the popcorn...Garry

Posted 7 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

Oh, those are the folders that go on the disc. You are not supposed to unRAR the ISO file. Just write it to CD-R with a CD burning program such as ImgBurn. That will make the Repair CD which you can boot from.

EDIT: The steps on how to burn the ISO file to disc are shown in the original article by The Geek.

Posted 7 years ago
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baldeguy56
Posts: 810

Diskpart.exe says there is 250GB. availible to shrink. Going to get a little shut eye. Thenks as always Scott...Garry

Posted 7 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

Aha! Diskpart is the answer, alright. Now you can shrink the Vista partition with the following command at the DISKPART command prompt in Windows RE:

shrink desired=62408

That number is the amount to shrink in MB. I calculated it to leave you with 100 GB of unallocated space for Windows 7.

Posted 7 years ago
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baldeguy56
Posts: 810

ScottW, Hi. I am going to do this right now. I will have HTG up on XP rig so I'll be back and forth just in case. Thanks...Garry

Could you please give me the exact text to write in Command? It is not recognized. Also, do I need ti incert a min. too? Thanks

Posted 7 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

You don't need to specify a minimum. Since we know there is 250 GB available, it should shrink 60 GB and if it doesn't it would be better to get an error message saying why. From the Command Prompt, run "diskpart" which will run and show a new prompt that says: "DISKPART>". At this prompt, run the following commands:

list disk
select disk 0
list partition
select partition 1
detail partition
shrink querymax
shrink desired=62408

From what I know of your system, you only have the one hard drive so that will be considered disk 0. The output of "list disk" shows all the hard drives in case there are more than one and you need to check. You should also have only one partition, which will be partition 1. The "list partition" command shows all of the partitions in case you needed to choose among more than one. The "detail partition" command prints extra info about the selected partition. This is where you should check the label to make sure it says "Vista" which is the one you want to shrink. If there were more drives and partitions, this check would be very important but in this case it is just practice.

Posted 7 years ago
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baldeguy56
Posts: 810

Scott, I undone all that I did before to give me more space (re-enabled Sys. Restore, Crash Dump,etc.). Now if I do a Query it tells me 0 bytes available. I did find the syntax for what I wanted to do, but ended with no space (0) .I'm beginning to think of those unmovable sections at the end of the disk, which is exactly where I'll be getting the 60GB from. Scary stuff for me. If you feel this is safe, then I'll disable Sys. Restore, etc and take the 60GB. Garry

Posted 7 years ago
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baldeguy56
Posts: 810

Have done everything I did to try to recreate the environment where it gave me 250GB. To no avail. Still the query reads 0. Really frustrating. Sorry for dragging you into this. Garry

Posted 7 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

Doh! Well, I did say above that step 6 would be the hardest. At least I have been proven right! :-)

Now, you are back to the techniques shown in The Geek's article on Vista's shrink inadequacy. PerfectDisk is your friend for this part.

Posted 7 years ago
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baldeguy56
Posts: 810

yeah, step 6 is proving to be a real bugger. Can't believe I had it the first time I queried the volume. I have Perfect Disk and have been an avid user for about 2 years now. Those unmovable files at the end PerfectDisk showed were gone last defrag. They were the page file set. Oh well, the mysteries and dag, do I hate them...lol. But I can't seem to even squeeze a byte out of Vista. In my last post this is still my situation. Afraid if I start uninstalling big files (games=around 35GB) that with my luck it wouldn't matter and I'll be stuck with having to reinstall them to Vista. Garry

Posted 7 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

Removing large files won't help. Multiple passes of PerfectDisk using the "aggressively consolidate free space" setting, and some boot time passes, will do the trick.

Accepted Answer · Posted 7 years ago
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baldeguy56
Posts: 810

Okay, I'm still getting zip, nada, nothing, zero. Scott, I don't really know what these 2 disks I have (Recovery Disk; One from CP) are capable of but can I start from scratch...meaning format, partitioning and reinstalling Vista to be able to have what I'm trying to do with the shrinkage. Would like to have Vista as default OS and Win7 with 200GB or more of growing space? Time to take the bull by its !!!!!. Garry

Posted 7 years ago
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mikisu
Posts: 337

OK once again, if you download Partition Wizard,which is suitable for Vista,you can shrink Vista easily,assuming the MFT system is similar to XP.

I have just shrunk XP from 34gb to 11 gb.

The reduced volume is working perfectly -all took less than 5 minutes.

Resizing partitions must be carried on outside of Windows,you cant normally or easily fiddle around with the partition whilst its the active one.

With a partition manager,this is achieved either by working from a DVD disk or in the case of PW,the required settings are applied and then Windows reboots,achieving the change.

Dont carry out any work without first backing up to a separate disk-

Can recommend a few good backup freebies.

Work with partitions is not 100% predictable.

Posted 7 years ago
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baldeguy56
Posts: 810

mikisu, Thanks for that info. I will follow your suggestions, but I'm concerned as to where the extra space taken from Vista will be taken from the end and that's exactly where Vista keeps their mirror or ghost info to and, further this is where I'll be taking the free space from. Very confusing to me at this point. Thanks...Garry

Posted 7 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

Garry, a partition manager will move the data at the end of the partition before shrinking said partition. That way, nothing is lost. Such software can also move entire partitions left or right in the disk map which involves moving data and changing "pointers" such as the master partition table which tells where partitions start.

Such operations are tricky which is why important data is backed up before attempting them.

Posted 7 years ago
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mikisu
Posts: 337

Yes, you must backup at all times especially before modifying your system.

Here are two free backup apps,one for the whole volume and the second for data only.

Both can store the backups onto CD/DVD,important if you dont have a spare HDD independent of the active one.

Macrium Reflet HERE

GFI HERE.

Suggest you use both.

MR would let you restore everything,including the OS system ,data and software,so its the most important.

Maybe carry out some backups and restores before doing the partitioning.

If you install Partition Wizard,you can carry out trial runs,which will give you a chance to experiment.

Nothing becomes effective until "Apply" is pressed,so there is no danger.

With PW you could also clone Vista to a spare partition,for use as a backup,but it sounds like you dont have any extra space.

Posted 7 years ago
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mikisu
Posts: 337

Forgot to mention the only problem I had after successfully resizing my active system with PW.

One app.downloaded from GAOTD,wouldnt run as the license had expired.

This indicates that,after resizing, it was considered as having been installed on a new HDD.

Posted 7 years ago
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baldeguy56
Posts: 810

Sorry for not replying sooner. I have over 250GB to backup without an external hard drive. As I mentioned earlier, I don't know what other than a full installation disk can achieve, but I would rather like to start from scratch. Installing Vista on 1/2 the drive and Win7 on the other 1/2. I don't think the 2 disks I have are capable of that. Looks like I'm stuck with 40GB for Win7. Thanks...Garry

Posted 7 years ago
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