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How Do I Get my Vista Back now Ubuntu 8.04 install has screwed everything !!

(47 posts)
  • Started 8 years ago by StevePaul
  • Latest reply from StevePaul
  • Topic Viewed 5186 times

StevePaul
Posts: 99

See other posts on this subject.
Am now getting really p***** off.
The only thing I can effectively do is boot from the Live CD ...
Someone MUST know how to fix this problem ...other than a full format and reinstall ...
Thought Linux was the way forward !!!!

Posted 8 years ago
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gaurang
Posts: 29

you can always restore back your boot.ini file , if you are using vista ... try to boot via setup dvd of vista , and in it , when it comes to installation , find an option saying " advance option " ... in it , if you look around , you will find option which is used to solve boot problem in vista .. ( i actually can't recall name of that option , but i m sure that its there ... when you will choose that option it will seek for previously installed OS ( here Vista ) to make new boot.ini file ... and it will boot up again ...

and ... FYI , being windows user i like Vista ... bt Linux / Ubuntu is far more better and "way forward" then dumb windows .... its not ubuntu but you have done something wrong with installation ... because i am using both Vista and ubuntu hardy together ... and i did installation by my self .... and it is working super fine .. so my first guess is , you must have screwed up with installation and its the only possibility i can see ...

best luck ... and let me know if you got sill problem ...

Posted 8 years ago
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StevePaul
Posts: 99

The problem is related to the fact that my Dell has RAID0 over 2 discs and apparently Ubuntu doesnt like it, it gets confused as to where everything is installed.

Tried the Vista install CD and restore but when you get to the bit where it should give you a list of restore points there is nothing displayed.

I think what I need to do from the various posts I've read is get into Grub and move the boot to vista section to the front of the list, but not being into linux commands I dont know how to find grub and then edit it.

The only thing I can do at the moment is use the Live CD to boot up then I know enough to get to Terminal through Applications.

Its finding which one of the discs Grub is on.

As I said I need step by step instructions to find out where evrything is, then get in and edit whatever it is I need to edit so that Vista boots up.

I think once I can get into Vista I might be able to do a 'Restore to previous'because it should recognise my C drive which it doesnt seem to do at the moment ...

Posted 8 years ago
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JadeEmperor
Posts: 244

what exactly have you done (if you can still recall)?

Posted 8 years ago
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StevePaul
Posts: 99

Originally shrunk disc as suggested then installed 8.04 using defaults. Got grub error 2 on boot up.
Installed again (so now have 2 copies)this time I chose to pick where I wanted it to go (ubfortunately cant remember which disc)

The problem I think is that my Inspiron 1721 is RAID0 over 2 discs which confuses the hell out od Ubuntu and where to go for its info.

I'm not into command line in Linux, but I think the solution would be to edit Grub and move the Vista boot section right to the front of the list so it does this first (Am I being too simple here !!)

If someone could just give me a simple list of instructions as to how to find where Grub is located (ie disc and parttition eg hd0,0 or something like that)and then how to edit it.

I'm pretty well able to get into Terminal and get a command line so as I say just a list of step by step instructions would be nice.

Once it boots straight into Vista I think I'm pretty well OK for sorting it from there using the repair option ...

I'll be really pissed off if I have to take it to my local techie to fix and have to pay for something that I think is quite easy if you know how to do it !!

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

StevePaul,

The Vista partition has to be fixed so it will boot.
Maybe one of our Vista members will pick-up on this topic.
You are correct and we should warn others that Ubuntu 8.04 does (NOT) play well with a Raid 0 configuration.
It is one of those issues that everyone thinks everyone else knows but that is not the case.
Keep watching your topic.

Kindest Regards,
Rick P. ♥ :)

Posted 8 years ago
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0zSpitt
Posts: 1037

i couldn't get past the grub error 21... or something like that. f2, f12, f8, nothing would work. i ended up reinstalled everything. the good part is i back everything up, the only thing i lost were my setting and a little time

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

@0zSpitt,

Yes; that is why I backed off.
I know how I would fix the problem but we would get right back into Clean Installs on a OEM Laptop and all that goes with that issue as you indicated (LOL) (LOL).
Just need backup opinions.

Kindest Regards,
Rick P. ♥ :)

Posted 8 years ago
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StevePaul
Posts: 99

Raphoenix ...Yor're right there should be a bloody great warning about Raid0 and Ubuntu.

Before I installed, I searched for any known problems with Ubuntu 8.04, I guess I asked the wrong questions !!

I'll know better next time ...

There's also some functions that have been removed from Ubuntu 8.04, that were in previous versions, that some of the posts refer to as a possible fixes.

I've now come across something called Knoppix that I'm gonna try, once I find some kind sole to lend me their computer so I can burn the CD (apparently this is the answer to everyones prayers - mine included I hope !!).

I guess the thing that really annoys me more that anything, is that I quite liked the look and feel of Ubuntu when I was just messing about using the Live CD.

Bottom line is I'll still try Ubuntu out, not totally put off Linux yet !!!

And the thing is, through all the hassle, I've learnt quite a bit about Linux and Vista along the way.

In the meantime if anyone does know how I can get to Vista from my Ubuntu Live CD I'm still open to suggestions.

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

StevePaul,
Just happened upon your reply - Sorry I didn't see it earlier.
Did you read all of this.
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SoftwareRAID
There has been a long standing augment on what RAID really is.
I think those (2) HDs are locked together with software Raid.
Let me research your machine.
Kindest Regards,
Rick P. ♥ :)

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

StevePaul,

Nice machine !!!!

After reading the manual, evidently DELL locked the drives together by using the Bios Setup.

http://support.dell.com/suppor.....#wp1079121

If you unlock them now, you will lose everything.

If you ordered the the machine with (2) HDs, DELL should have sent you a OEM copy of Vista.

I would call DELL and see what they will do for you.

DELL ought to have had sense enough to ship at least a Restore CD with a machine which can be configured as a Raid 0 or as a Raid 1 (10) machine (especially a Laptop).

Kindest Regards,
Rick P. ♥ :)

Posted 8 years ago
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StevePaul
Posts: 99

Yeah, ordered this direct through Dell. Got a copy of the Vista CD thats not a problem.
Problem is the bloody thing (there I go again!) isn't recognising any drives or operating systems.
The additional problem I've got is that I've recently moved house and where I'm at haven't got an Internet connection installed !! (can you believe it in this day and age - I know I should have checked before I moved !)
Have to be honest Dell support is really quite good (in my experience)the last time I had a problem I ended up talking to a very nice man somewhere in India.
Got Knoppix on my pendrive, now just need to burn it to a CD and give it a whirl, mind you can't do it on my laptop 'cos its holding the drive for Ubuntu ...

Posted 8 years ago
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StevePaul
Posts: 99

Thanks for the link above, looks like I should have used the alternative install for AMD64, got to be honest I did see it but didn't think it applied to me.

Do you think if I do an alternate install (AMD64)over the balls up I've already got it'll sort my problem.

Mind you it can't really get any worse can it !!!

Posted 8 years ago
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0zSpitt
Posts: 1037

i had this happen on my desktop, the only way i could think of to fix it was to remove the hard drive (500g) and put it in an external case. then i installed a 160g hard drive and reinstalled vista, but i had to call microsoft this time to activate it. i was able to reformat the hard drive this way, but left the os on the 160 hard drive. which is ok, at least i have 1tb of backup space now.

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

POST DELETED by raphoenix 09/12/2008

Posted 8 years ago
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StevePaul
Posts: 99

Thanks for your help ...

Think I'm goona go drown my sorrows now with an incredible amount of extremely strong alcohol ...

To make things worse my keyboard has now developed a squeak ...

Not sure which goes through the window first, the laptop or the keyboard !!!

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

StevePaul,

I understand your situation fully and would be inclined to do the same as you.
I always dislike being the bearer of bad news but I guess it is just my "lot" on HTG.
Please accept my genuine sympathies.

Kindest Regards,
Rick P. ♥ :)

Posted 8 years ago
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StevePaul
Posts: 99

Such is life ...

The brightness on the horizon is that I'm spending the day with my grandaughter tomorrow ...

So to hell with Vista, Ubuntu and Dell till another day (still got that squeak !)

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

POST DELETED by raphoenix 09/12/2008

Posted 8 years ago
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StevePaul
Posts: 99

Will do, been realy nice talking to you ...

I've had a look at your website, well impressed ...

Catch up with you later ...

Best Regards SP :)

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

POST DELETED by raphoenix 09/12/2008

Posted 8 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

Rick, you make it sound like it's either RAID 0 or 1 on that Inspiron. There is a third choice: no RAID, just 2 hard disks. Also, why are you recommending Ghost? To wipe the hard drives, including the MBR if it's stuck on GRUB, the OP can use DBAN:
http://www.dban.org/

Also, for anyone who wants to know, it does appear that Ubuntu can be run on the Inspiron 1721 according to this link:
http://stevetells.wordpress.co.....iron-1721/

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

POST DELETED by raphoenix 09/12/2008

Posted 8 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

StevePaul, from searching around it looks like Ctrl-F is the keystroke that will get you into the RAID setup menu at boot time. However, Dell does not seem to have any information about this at their website, so they might not support non-RAID on this system. You should probably ask Dell first, if you are considering this option.

Using the link to the Ubuntu community wiki-looking thing, I found this short article (heavy sarcasm there) on how to install Ubuntu on a PC with Windows and built-in RAID, which they call FakeRAID:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FakeRaidHowto

I mentioned DBAN for wiping the disks because it's freeware.

Posted 8 years ago
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StevePaul
Posts: 99

Yeah I read this too ...

Can get into the BIOS settings easy enough but it won't allow you tp switch the Raid off ...

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

StevePaul,

From my post on the First Page, I said "There has been a long standing augment on what RAID really is."

I'm NOT sure your machine has a Bios setting for not locking the HD's in Raid 0 or Raid 10 once the Bios / Controller sees (2) HDs installed.

I made a comment in an earlier post that I think it (might????) be possible to run Ubuntu in a Raid 10 configuration but am not sure since the HDs just duplicate each other in partitions and read / writes.

In this machine, I can configure the Sata HDs as non-raid but of course this is an ATX MB with a different Intel Chipset.

Suggest you call Dell because I had a "heavy" discussion with HP concerning their Dual HD Laptop PCs when they first came out last year.
In their case, they really did try to use software to make a raid configuration.
Don't know what they use now.
Did you see your Grand Kids ??
Kindest Regards,
Rick P. ♥ :)

Posted 8 years ago
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0zSpitt
Posts: 1037

if i restart and hit <control-i>, i can get to my raid settings. i've never messed with it but ive seen "raid off-on" and other settings. i'm not sure if this has anything to do with this. just thought i'd through it in...

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

@0z,

You have nailed the problem in this thread.

We don't know what Bios / controller settings (StevePaul) has because the on-line manual does not go into detail.

I doubt the documentation which came with his machine is much better.

If I had a look at the machine, I could easily tell what his machine is capable of but that's the problem.

Seems no one on the forum has that particular machine ether so they can jump-in.

We are all just (guessing) how his Bios / Controller can be setup for the Laptop Dual HDs.
Do you have a Dell Inspiron 1721 ????
Kindest Regards,
Rick P. ♥ :)

Posted 8 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

I don't own an Inspiron 1721, but I do know that it can't do RAID 10 when it sees 2 hard disks installed. RAID 10 is a shortcut for RAID 1+0 or 0+1 -- the usage is not standard. So, that's either a mirrored set of striped sets or a striped set of mirrored sets. Either way, you need at least 4 hard disks to make a RAID 0+1 or 1+0 (or "10") set.

As far as I know, there is no "standard" for RAID at least not one from a standards body such as IEEE or ITU-T. Is there? It seems to me to be an ad hoc standard, but if someone knows of a defined standard please send me a pointer. As a result, I suppose that it's easy to argue about what RAID really is because no one can point back to THE standard and say, "that's what RAID is".

And in case it seems like I'm contradicting myself, my definition of RAID 10 is based on my understanding of the ad hoc standard.

Finally, back-to-topic: helping StevePaul. We know that someone deleted the RAID set on an Inspiron 1721 and blogged about it. We know that the Ubuntu community wiki has instructions about how to install Ubuntu in a dual boot config with Windows on a PC with BIOS-assisted RAID. However, that kind of anecdotal evidence is not very reassuring and there is a lot of risk involved. I wouldn't do it. From what I have seen, the Wubi installer for Ubuntu seems like the way to go for a Wintel PC user who wants to run Ubuntu. No messing with the MBR and if Ubuntu doesn't like your system, just uninstall it from Windows.

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

@ScottW,

Agree with you about the non-standard definition of raid.
That is why I included it in one of my first post. Please Look back through the thread.
However disagree that mirroring requires (4) HDs.
The Bios / controller can be locked into (Mirroring) with only (2) HDs.
Mirroring just requires an (Even Number of HDs) preferably all of the same capacity, cache amount and transfer speed.
======================
I am mirroring (2) Sata hard drives as I write this post SO it can be done very easily !!!!
======================
As for helping (StevePaul), I suggest the simplest and quickest solution to his problem is just to wipe the HDs and Clean Install Vista as he says he has an OEM complete copy of Vista.
======================
Lets not argue and engage in "one-ups-man-ship" as we have BOTH been setting-up computer systems and coding for very, very many long years.
There really is NO need for us to try to prove how much we know.
I DO respect your knowledge and hope that you would respect mine.
"Hatchet buried as for as I am concerned" :) :) - Thanks Rick P.

======================
Kindest Regards,
Rick P. ♥ :)

Posted 8 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

Rick P., I'm not arguing with you, just setting the record straight. Your usage of RAID 10 was incorrect according to the ad hoc standard which is what is widely accepted. I have provided links to back up my statements because I am not trying to prove what I know, but trying to insure that people can do their own research and not just take my word. We can have this debate, civilly, in another thread. I will not reply to this thread again except to help the OP.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

ScottW,
Agree that helping (StevePaul) should be OUR UTMOST Priority.
The old Raid discussion has been around for 15-20 years or more. Remember sometimes days and weeks were devoted to it on the old Asus News Group with folks getting angry, using foul language and all the rest. No real value in going over 15-20 years of plowed ground again for us both.
Kindest Regards,
Rick P. ♥ :)

Posted 8 years ago
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StevePaul
Posts: 99

Hi Guys, sorry for the delay in responding to your comments, after the trauma of trying to install Ubuntu I decided to have a few days away !!
Anyway the upshot is that after numerous attempts to get Ubuntu working I decided to 'grasp the nettle' and do a clean install of Vista.

Apart from a few items that I hadn't gor backed up everything went well.

I used the option to use all of my disk to install ...

Just for the hell of it I used the Ubuntu Live CD to look at my disc setup

The strange thing is Windows thinks all my disk is a NTFS partition whereas the Ubuntu Live CD see it as 2 discs 1 with NTFS and the other with various Linux stuff on it.

ubuntu@ubuntu:~$ sudo fdisk -l
Disk /dev/sda: 160.0 GB, 160041885696 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 19457 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
Disk identifier: 0xf8000000

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sda1 * 1 38899 312448000 7 HPFS/NTFS

Disk /dev/sdb: 160.0 GB, 160041885696 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 19457 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x000c28ef

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sdb1 1 2586 20772013+ 83 Linux
/dev/sdb2 2587 19457 135516307+ 5 Extended
/dev/sdb5 18754 19457 5654848+ 82 Linux swap / Solaris /
/dev/sdb6 2587 18091 124543849+ 83 Linux
/dev/sdb7 18092 18753 5317483+ 82 Linux swap / Solaris

Partition table entries are not in disk order ubuntu@ubuntu:~$

Its not causing me any problems, but any ideas why Ubuntu is showing it like this ...

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

StevePaul,

Both HDs needed to be wiped (Zeroed Out Completely) and a Clean Install performed from Scratch.
The Bios can probably be set before the Clean Install to:
1. NO raid
2. Raid 0 Stripe
3. Raid 1 Mirror
Only guessing at Bios Settings as you have to look at possibilities in your machine.
I have no documentation.
Post back.
Kindest Regards,
Rick P. ♥ :)

Posted 8 years ago
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StevePaul
Posts: 99

Thought it was going to do this for me from the Install disk, especially I as I told it to use all the disk !!

Could I use Knoppix or Gparted to delete the partitions, shrink the disc and create a new partition as NTFS or just leave it unallocated ...

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

StevePaul,
Normally I carefully plan a system's configuration ahead of time.
Now you are getting into HD configuration (AFTER) O/S Installation.
Since I always do HD Preparation (BEFORE) O/S Installation, I'm going to default to one of the other members for a good solution to your existing issue now.
Keep watching your thread.

Kindest Regards,
Rick P. ♥ :)

Posted 8 years ago
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StevePaul
Posts: 99

As I said, thought it would do it for me ...

How come windows sees it different to Linux ?

Is nothing ever easy ?

Once again thanks for your help ...

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

StevePaul,
Many members are not retired but working US/Time Zone.
Someone will jump-in to help I feel sure.
What is shown in Vista disk management ??

Kindest Regards,
Rick P. ♥ :)

Posted 8 years ago
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StevePaul
Posts: 99

Shows it as full available space (297Gb) NTFS
Healthy (System Boot,Page File, Active, Crash Dump, Primary Partition)

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

StevePaul,

If Vista Disk Management is showing (1) partition of around 300 Gigs, then the system is running in Raid 0.
When you look at the system in Ubuntu Live Disk, it cannot recognize Raid 0 so you are getting a false report, so to speak, in simplified terms.

If your system has no other problems, then you are probably good to go.
This is just my best guess as to what is happening on your machine.

Kindest Regards,
Rick P. ♥ :)

Posted 8 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

StevePaul, you do have all the storage allocated to Vista. Using the pre-calculated conversion factor, each 160 "GB" drive is actually 160 x 0.931 = 148.96 gigabytes. The two together are 297.9 gigabytes. So, when Vista says you have 297 Gb for that system partition, that is *all* of the available space.

The Linux live CD is not seeing the two drives as a single RAID 0 set. It sees them as two separate drives, so the information it provides about partitions is incorrect and should be ignored. This is the same as what Rick P. is saying in his last post above.

Posted 8 years ago
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StevePaul
Posts: 99

ScottW and Rick P,

Thanks for your help guys, I guessed that the disk space Vista was showing was all that was available, I just got a little confused when Ubuntu was telling me something slightly different.

Anyway laptop is now back to where I was about 10 days ago !!!

The one thing that I've achieved out of all this is to have a 'spring clean', surprising the amount of c*** you accumulate.

I may be mad but I'm still gonna have a go at installing Ubuntu (not just yet though !!), I think I can confidently say I now know traps you can fall into loading it on a laptop with RAID 0 !!

Once again, thanks for your help ...

Best Regards SP

Posted 8 years ago
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ScottW
Posts: 6609

StevePaul, if the Wubi Installer for Ubuntu supported your RAID setup, I would recommend it. They say that RAID 0 support is coming in version 8.1, but it's currently at 8.04.

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

StevePaul,

It was our pleasure to assist you.

Stick with HTG, learn much and have some fun !!!!

Kindest Regards,
Rick P. ♥ :)

Posted 8 years ago
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StevePaul
Posts: 99

Once again thanks Guys ...

I did use the Wubi installer originally for 8.04, but that's history now !!

Think I'll wait for 8.10, which isn't that far off.

Got to be honest, like the way Ubuntu does its releases every 6 months, you know where you are !

Talk to you Guys later ...

Regards SP

Posted 8 years ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

StevePaul,
It was our pleasure to assist you.
Stick with HTG, learn much and have some fun !!!!
(Solved)
Kindest Regards,
Rick P. ♥ :)

Posted 8 years ago
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StevePaul
Posts: 99

Certainly will ...
Learnt loads already ...
Mind you, they say you learn more from adversity and when things go wrong !!

Posted 8 years ago
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