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HTG Explains: Why Do So Many Geeks Hate Internet Explorer?

sshot-2010-10-18-1-04-07-47

It’s common knowledge that almost every single geek hates Internet Explorer with a passion, but have you ever wondered why? Let’s take a fair look at the history and where it all began… for posterity, if nothing else.

Contrary to what you might think, this article is not meant to be a hate-fest on Internet Explorer—in fact, we’re pretty impressed with the hardware acceleration and new features in Internet Explorer 9—but keep reading for the whole story.

In the Beginning There Was IE, and It Was Good?

We’ve all been so used to thinking of Internet Explorer as that slow, buggy browser that is behind the times, but it wasn’t always that way—in fact, way back when, Internet Explorer pioneered many innovations that made the web what it is today.

image

Here’s a quick tour through the easily forgotten history of the infamous browser:

1996: Internet Explorer 3
This version of the browser, introduced in 1997, was the first browser to implement CSS (Cascading Style Sheets). Yes, you’re reading that correctly—in fact, it introduced many new features like Java applets and sadly, ActiveX controls.

1997: Internet Explorer 4
IE4 introduced a blazing fast (at the time) rendering engine as an embeddable component that could be used in other applications—this was a lot more important than people realize. This version also introduced Dynamic HTML, which allows web pages to dynamically change the page using JavaScript, and added Active Desktop integration.

Even more weird? Seems like nobody remembers this anymore, but IE4 was actually cross-platform—you could install it on Mac OS, Solaris, and HP-UX—and by the time IE5 was released, IE4 had reached a 60% market share.

1999: Internet Explorer 5.x
Microsoft invented Ajax. Wait… what? That’s right, it was this version of IE that introduced the XMLHttpRequest feature in JavaScript, which forms the underlying technology behind every web application you’re using today—you know, like Gmail. Of course, the term “Ajax” wasn’t actually coined until years later by somebody other than Microsoft, but this release supported everything required to make it work.

So Yes, Microsoft Innovated
From IE3 until IE6, Microsoft used all their resources to simply out-innovate the competition, releasing new features and better browsers faster than Netscape. In fact, Netscape 3 Gold was a buggy piece of junk that crashed all the time, and Netscape 4 was extremely slow and could barely render tables—much less CSS, which would often cause the browser to crash.

To put it in context: web developers used to complain about Netscape the same way they complain about IE6 now.

What Made It Go So Very Wrong?

image

The trouble all started when Microsoft integrated IE into Windows as a required component, and made it difficult to uninstall and use an alternate browser. Then there was the whole business with them exploiting their monopoly to try and push Netscape out of the market, and a lot of people started to view Microsoft as the evil empire.

Microsoft Stopped Trying
By the time Microsoft released Internet Explorer 6 in 2001, complete with lots of new features for web developers, since there was no competition and they had a 95% market share, Microsoft just stopped trying—seriously, they did nothing for 5 years even after Firefox was released and geeks started migrating left and right.

Microsoft-Specific Features
The whole problem with Microsoft’s innovation is that much of it was done in ways that didn’t follow the web standards—this wasn’t as big of a problem when Internet Explorer was the only game in town, but once Firefox and Webkit came around and started following the standards correctly, suddenly it became a huge problem for web developers.

Security Holes and Crashing
Since Microsoft decided they didn’t need to try anymore, and they didn’t keep up with the competition from Firefox and other browsers, bugs and security holes just cropped up left and right—really terrible ones, too. For instance, this code is all that is required to crash IE6:

<script>for(x in document.write){document.write(x);}</script>

In fact, the screenshot at the beginning of this section was a live example of testing out this particular bug.

IE7 and IE8 Were Too Little, Too Late
It took 5 years after IE6 for Microsoft to finally get around to releasing IE7, which added tabs and made the browser slightly more tolerable, but for web designers it was still a nightmare to deal with, and only complicated the issue since now you had to make pages render correctly in two lousy browsers instead of just one.

It took another 2.5 years for Microsoft to finally release Internet Explorer 8, which greatly improved CSS support for web developers, and added new features like Private browsing, tab isolation to prevent one bad page from taking down the whole browser, and phishing protection. By this point, most geeks had already moved on to Firefox, and then some of us to Google Chrome.

Here’s the Real Reason Geeks Hate IE

image[21]

Just because we’re geeks doesn’t mean we hate everything that’s inferior and outdated—in fact, we often love retro computing—that’s why we love Atari, NES, Commodore 64, etc. We take pride in our geek knowledge. So why’s Internet Explorer a different story?

Here’s a couple of reasons that fueled our hatred of the buggy browser, and finally put us all over the edge:

Supporting IE is Like a Fork in the Eye for Web Devs
Here’s a sample of a day in the life of a web designer: You spend hours making sure that your page looks great, and you test it out in Google Chrome, Firefox, Safari, and even Opera. It looks great, awesome!

Now you open up IE and the page looks like somebody put it into a blender and hit the Whip button. Then you spend double the amount of time trying to fix it to look tolerable in IE6 and IE7, cursing loudly the entire time.

Geeks Forced to Use Internet Explorerimage
And here’s where we come to the real issue—the whole reason that geeks can’t stand Internet Explorer:

Geeks everywhere were forced to use Internet Explorer at work even when there are better browsers, forced to support it for corporate applications, forced to make sure web sites still work in IE, and we couldn’t convince everybody to switch to a better browser.

Geeks don’t hate something that’s inferior—but they do hate it when it’s forced on them.

The Good News: The Future Might Be Brighter

Thankfully it seems like Microsoft has finally learned from their many, many mistakes in the browser world. They are below 50% in the market share wars, and they’ve finally learned to focus on using web standards.

Internet Explorer 9 is about to be released, it’s got a shiny new interface that looks a lot like Google Chrome, blazing fast hardware acceleration, and supports HTML5 surprisingly well—in fact, it’s so much better that 34% of our readers said they will switch to IE9.

Microsoft is billing Internet Explorer 9 as the browser that’s going to change the world, and they aren’t wrong—they just aren’t mentioning that they were the only ones holding the web back with their anemic browsers. And now that mess is finally over.


Here’s hoping they’ve truly learned their lesson.

Lowell Heddings, better known online as the How-To Geek, spends all his free time bringing you fresh geekery on a daily basis. You can follow him on if you'd like.

  • Published 10/18/10

Comments (207)

  1. McCoy Pauley

    “Shiny new interface”, “blazing fast”, blah-blah-blah. IE was always a pig, and now it’s just a pig with a bad wig and a lot of lipstick.

    Swiss-cheese-security bloatware. What’s next — IE10, with a free pack of mini-condoms for your fingers?

  2. Dardani

    Great topic (Y)

  3. sam

    They haven’t. I’m sure if we ever let IE become the king of browsers again, another dark age of browser compatibility would be imminent. The best bet is to keep the browser war in full swing for as long as possible. The more contenders, the better.

  4. KB Prez

    Great article!!! Serious competition forced Microsoft to re-work IE and I say three LOUD cheers for competition!

  5. thenonhacker

    I used to be an IE user, and now I’m using Firefox.

    I like IE9, but I can’t just leave Firefox, because of its rich set of useful add-ons and customizations. And for that same reason, I can’t just move to Chromium.

    All IE needed was competition from Firefox & Chrome, the same way Google Search needed competion from Bing.com in order to start making progress.

  6. Bron

    Browser compatability is a joke since at some point the web standard changes and every browser gets out-moded. Your sites just have to keep up with the browser market share. IE does have the best security however despite unfounded claims to the contrary. http://nsslabs.com/test-reports/NSSLabs_Q12010_GTRBrowserSEM_FINAL.pdf Besides…how many damn browsers do we need? Seriously?! Google came out with Chrome for what? So they could do the same thing M$ did 15 years ago. F***K OFF!!!

  7. Wevenhuis

    The reason why IE is hated so is because it still is slow and still crashes too often, compared to other browsers. I’m even noticing this in IE9!!!!

  8. excentric

    Like ‘thenonhacker’, I cannot leave Firefox. I have tried every new browser as it came along, and I always, always go right back to Firefox. I just can’t live without my extensions. I can do things with one click that would take several on any other browser. So many time-savers and just plain cool little tricks are available with extensions. I always recommend Firefox to my friends.

  9. lehenryjr

    While I love the flash backs to C64 and the time line of Microsoft Internet Explorer failure… Internet Explorer isn’t going to make it back to the top, or to a great majority share because they’ve DESTROYED the brand name. That’s why we don’t have PINTO’s on the road…

    When you think PINTO; you think death trap. Well, if you think Internet Explorer, you think security risk [bugs, crashes, bloat, crap, viruses] and that’s not going to change among the smart people.

    The ‘ just want to use a computer’ crowd will continue to use Internet Explorer cause they don’t know any better… And that’s the status quo– and that’ll be Microsoft target audience. That’s who they’re going after… the ‘dumb it down for me’ crowd.

    Nice post & break down.

    Until next time,
    Larry Henry Jr.
    LEHSYS.com

  10. Seasider

    Tried beta from day one. It started off fine, then as the days went by it got bad and badder. Back to IE8 as my second to Chrome. Now got the IE tab on Chrome so no need for IE at all. Will re-try in a few months. Not very optimistic about 9 at all.

  11. Twirrim

    Bron: Right from the start google touted chrome as a hobby browser. They had ideas on how tp make a browser better, quicker. All the browsers had stagnated mostly with only small improvements between releases. Chrome came along and was blindingly fast compared to the others and spurred them on to sort themselves out. Note the huge changes between firefox 3 & 4, then compare it to the incremental update that was 2-3. Same goes for ie 8-9 compared to 7-8.

  12. Col

    Another reason some of us detest IE is that when IE8 was installed via windows update it would run a wizard on first use by every user on that computer which was a blatant attempt to get more ms bloat on to the system. Accelerators! WTF? Web standards do change but when they do it is well known in advance what will be changing. Google came out with Chrome for many Good reasons and now MS are finally having to suck it up and conform to standards. You never own anything from MS you rent it, lease it or borrow it and at all times it still belongs to them.

  13. Jeremy Hindle

    It wasn’t because Microsoft got lazy with their browser and stopped innovating because of that. In fact the people who should be blamed for the spread of IE hate is the US government. Yes you heard me straight – the US government indirectly made it unfavorable for Microsoft to spend manpower on developing their browser due to anti-trust laws and general government restrictions on Microsoft’s actions.

    I wonder if it’s fair to say the US government caused us to have good competition between browsers which drives innovation now (which is awesome) but also that the massive widespread issues of windows related viruses across the web through a slowly developed IE is also their fault? Mmmm.

    I feel a bit sorry for the big M really, it is a seriously incredible company. Most people don’t realize it but Microsoft is still far more innovative than Google or Apple have been (so far). People should stop loving to hate Microsoft just because its “the successful, generic one”.

    Still I’m a total linux nut :), Microsoft is great, Apple sucks and is only good at one thing, advertising and marketing.

  14. Paul

    I was very surprised at how fast the beta is. Unfortunately, many work environments, like mine still use XP and IE8 which is painfully slow. Google chrome is still my main browser at home but IE9′s vast improvement in speed makes for a welcome change.

  15. Mudslinger

    If Microsoft wants to dominate the market again – I believe they would have to at least look at making IE into a cross-platform standards-compliant browser that would run on not just Windows and Mac, but at least for some of the popular Unix/Linux variants as well. And really throw out or fix the features that aren’t standards compliant (trying to lock people’s choices in is not really going to work well when the competition is following the trend of being open).

    And because of the security issues (due to not being fully standards compliant as well as a few other reasons) I’m simply refusing to run IE as a regular browser (only as a website tester if I’m working on a project).

    I play with three different browsers half the time – and all three I have a more positive experience from using (simply due to the fact they have focused on actually making something that performs well, is easy to use and doesn’t feel like swiss-cheese in terms of security and stability). Firefox, Opera & Chrome. If I need to consider other browsers I’d more likely consider variants from these three and other systems before IE.

    Even if MS was to go back to basics and produce a decent browser – it will take a long time to convince me of it being a worthy browser for the next era in internet evolution.

  16. charles

    I dont know I was one of the many who got excited about this stable beta yea sure

    things they messed up to there own operating system.. Be a long time before i do that again .. Actually it was the same with the essentails live OMG having to dig and dig to find dll that needed changing..

    Now how would the normal even deal with that .. we had to digg they would have no idea.

    If they don’t know how to write software and have it not goof up everything in site..

    For now and for a long time to come ill shy away from IE .. good luck

    I doubt if they can keep up with Fox actually .. less they stop developing

    Chrome I play with but still so much needs to be done and now they are spread thinner now .. ex the driver less car..

    Fox has the market .. they just need to keep working on it..

  17. JasonCook599

    Why are you cutting off the RSS feed? I subscribe to 197 different blogs and read 3 655 posts a month. I do not want to be visiting 197 different sites. If this is a permanent change, I will be unsubscribing from your blog.

  18. thenonhacker

    @Mudslinger:

    1. When all browsers are standards-compliant, why is being cross-platform an issue? If all browsers render HTML5 and CSS3 the same standards-compliant way, then the Operating Systems don’t matter anymore. Hell, the browsers don’t even matter anymore when that happens. Like if I can open my PDF files with Adobe Reader, NitroPDF, or FoxIt Reader, then good for the consumers!

    2. You can’t just demand IE for Unix and Linux, and then say you wouldn’t use it anyway. Just sayin’.

    3. It’s a waste of time making IE for Linux and Unix, when they will still stick to use Chrome or Firefox or Konqueror. :-/ I mean, Microsoft is “evil” especially to the *nix world, why bother making something that will not be used? Am I missing something here?

  19. thenonhacker

    @charles: Firefox user here. It’s just a matter of time and Firefox will eventually outperform Chrome and IE. Firefox is actually the first to implement GPU Acceleration, not IE9.

    @JasonCook599: Their RSS is still working — http://feeds.howtogeek.com/HowToGeek

  20. John A

    I have all three installed. But IE is the one I use almost exclusively.

    Why? Well, I may be a (non-Geek, despite designing and writing software for several decades) outlier. I have over 2500 bookmarks. I arrange them into folders (news, bills, shopping, TV, movies) and subfolders (US, UK, Aus, electronics, clothing). Firefox and Google extract SOME of the folder contents (about half) and build a list – to find a site I can find in a couple of strokes/clicks with IE I have to scroll/page (HUNDREDS of scroll clicks) through and hope the site I want is even there! Or scroll looking for folders, which are in these lists, then open them(!!), repeat for subfolders…

    Oh, I am almost sure there is an add-on, plug-in, or some such for doing what I want. Finding it, though…

    Since these browsers know about folders (not exactly a Microsoft exclusive, now is it?) why the blinking blue blazes will they do all this to me?

  21. Beta

    Thanks for this great article . I really enjoyed reading it ^_^ .

  22. Nathaniel

    Excellent article. I would like to add something, however.

    Microsoft is billing IE9 as the browser to change the internet, and it *is* valid for the reasons specified in your article. HOWEVER, unless microsoft adopts a forced-upgrade policy (which we all know will not happen), it’s still going to be years before the market share of browsers with new capability reaches a significant enough amount. IE market share may be down to less than half, but take a look at those numbers. Most of those are still on archaic IE6. Until M$ adopts a forced-upgrade situation, they will continue to hold the web back. Firefox alerts it’s users when a new stable version is released (optionally turned off, but on by default) and in that way does the best job of forcing a forced-upgrade situation as best as we can expect. Chrome does it’s fair share to force users to stay current. M$ still allows it’s users to stagnate with little to no alerts of updates. It will apply updates to the current version through windows update, but when a new version is released, it’s users have to actually go out and LOOK for information. My parents used IE6 until IE8 was released because they were not informed of the new browser version until I specifically went and looked at their system. M$ stil does NOTHING to inform the casual computer user.

    IE9 is a great step in the right direction, but there is more than just becoming compliant that they need to do.

  23. The Geek

    @JasonCook599

    We’ve just been testing partial feeds on a couple of posts, you really should relax. Is clicking through once in a while that big of a deal?

    Also, if you actually read 3655 posts per month in your RSS reader, that’s slightly crazy. Are you allergic to sunlight?

  24. Andy

    IE 9 beta is installed on this box and tbh, there still isn’t any reason to switch from Chrome.

  25. Tangmeister

    The only time I’ve been able to make IE9 run nearly as fast as Chrome was when I disabled everything and ran InPrivate browsing with one tab. :D

  26. Miss Andrea Borman.

    I have recently uninstalled IE completely on my 2 Windows 7 laptops. I did this by deleting the IE files in programs on my hard drive, after editing them and using a tool called Unlocker. Now IE is permanently removed from my computers but my system still works. As I have a number of other browsers i do not miss IE one little bit. and I don’t see why it is mandatory for all Windows PCs to have IE on them. Andrea.

  27. Mike

    No Windows 7? No IE9.

    Is Windows 7 REALLY that much better than the competition?

  28. LibrarianGeekOverlord

    IE9 doesn’t run on Windows XP. If I upgrade to Windows 7, I have to toss my old, perfectly functional scanner and printer because there aren’t any drivers for them for Windows 7. And I have to get a version of PhotoShop later than 6. I am not alone. 68% of Windows users are using XP, probably for similar reasons. A computer lab that was “upgraded” to Windows 7 two months ago still has printing failures daily. I do web design as both part of my job and as a volunteer. We all know that the multiple IE tools only go so far to mimic what real users of older versions are seeing. This is giving me nightmares.

  29. herp

    IE sucks because: iexplorer.exe == explorer.exe == Windows
    One huge piece of shit

  30. Daysie

    Microshaft, please stop trying. You can’t polish a turd

  31. Shekhar

    I really don’t think that MS IE is going down any further. With the increase in sales of Windows based PCs and Laptops people really don’t need Firefox (geeks may want that).
    The end user is more than happy to browse Internet in IE.

    IE9 is definitely going to pull back some share in the market.Things are getting better for IE as people would soon be moving to HTML 5 and with IE9, you don’t see any compatibility issues.

  32. tommed

    Great; Another version of IE we are going to have to support. :(

    It’s ok if M$ were forcing companies to upgrade, but most large companies still use IE6 (including the UK government) as that is what all their intranet systems work with. The sheer cost to upgrade the browser is too much, so we are left having to support IE6 AND every subsequent version.

  33. Lelouch

    My main reason for choosing browsers is the screen estate it uses.
    I’m using a 14″ laptop out and connect it to a 23″ monitor at home. It just annoys me when stupid bars are blocking you from your content.
    So for the moment, Chrome. IE9 is REALLY catching up though.

  34. rob

    amen. I’m one of those web devs who doubles his coding time to please IE, literally cursing every step of the way. My children aren’t allowed in the room while I’m fixing html.

  35. Yohan Perera

    I have decided to follow Chrooooommeee ///

    No turning back – No turning back //

  36. dood

    just like lehenryjr said, the simple non-tech crowd(and mostly the elderly) will continue using whatever comes with their computer, they are afraid of change even after introducing them to tab-browsing (they still use IE6 for god’s sake !!!) just because they aren’t used to new things (for old people its understandable) and just don’t want any more “programs” on their desktop (they consider a shortcut[even to a folder] a program) one thing I learned is that if you install firefox/chrome/any-other-browser and change the icon into internet explorer they’ll start using it and you can tell them you just updated their browser.

  37. arifsaeed.com

    I have to agree, once i got the taste of tabbed browsing and less crashes on firefox. i never even thought of going back to IE

  38. Tim

    The reason IE started out fairly well was because we had at the time Mosaic and Netscape and frankly they were rubbish. The big feature of IE for me was just that at the time it was so much faster. No longer did I have to wait for the entire page to load before I could scroll down and read the text it had loaded so far. That was a big deal back in the days of 9600 modems.

    But they lost the plot later, and bloated it, and then along came the likes of Firefox which was sleek at the time (no longer true, it’s just as bloated). Chrome is my choice now. Why? Because again it’s just faster than the rest. I don’t care about the bells and whistles, just load the page quick!

  39. Tim

    Oh, and Daysie – you can polish a turd

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiJ9fy1qSFI

  40. Paul Bennett

    The reason I hate IE goes way back to the days of Netscape. MS used their desktop market share to bully Netscape and attempted to force a majority of users into their browser software, ironically, Mosaic, which was created in part by the guy who started Netscape. It was a POS and MS eventually put a bunch of proprietary crap into html etc so in order to view webpages, you had to have this crappy browser. Developers were screwed because at times, you had to make two versions of a site but only get paid for one. MS came late to the game and screwed everything up and we still haven’t fully recovered from it. So use IE again? NO EFFIN WAY!!! It’s like voting republican again after 8 years of Bush. MS blew it and does not deserve a second chance. Screw them. They can’t be trusted.

  41. Pourya

    Great article!
    Really enjoyed reading it….

  42. George O.

    Relax, It’s only software. The “bowser war” is only in your mind.

  43. Bill Gates

    That’s all because the young people recently have been brain washed by google marketing and the media who want desperated to produce new content to justify they clients advertisement.IE has been always superior than any other browser unfortunate people do’t understand the complexities and the new features going on every release.

  44. George W. Bush

    America declared war on IE because we could not spy on people easily. Now that all idiots around the world use google and eat apples it’s very easy to produce zombies and watch what they are doing.

  45. Bill Clinton

    It’s not my fault. I was just trying to have fun at the time. Dam Hilary!… is her fault!

  46. mofo

    Hey guys there is a little thing called group policy that no other browser has and no systems admin would go without.

  47. Jim

    Except now we have to test our websites in yet another browser!

  48. kay

    They can have IE9. It’s not compatible with XP and I am not going to bother with annoying Vista or crashing my computer to update to Windows 7. Firefox rules!!!!

  49. JimmyDaGeek

    Geeks are mostly rebels, iconoclasts, ftw thinkers. and yes, lotta older folks dont use computers for much of anything but emails and family pictures. I am 67, and fix computers as an amateur (I have built over 1000), often for older folks. Many need Linux because they do NO ! housekeeping on their computers. I have defraged up to 60000 files on one computer. many have never defraged. so keep it simple works for most.
    I like the idea of changing the icon. I prefer Opera but Firefox is the most flexible.
    Microsoft transformed the world, but every enterprise has a growth curve. And there is a lot of money involved in I T, especially at the corporate level.
    One final thought, vitriolic remarks show childish ignorance, I m loyal to whatever works.

  50. anon

    How much did M$ paid you?

  51. An ex beginner

    Illuminating. Couldn’t agree more with the article

    This is actually a prove to a economic ‘law’: monopoly is always bad for every person involved: customers, society and in the end the company itself

  52. Dan

    The IE have problem to open thier Microsoft web site, I use firefox and the problem gone.
    I using Firefox to access hotmail and Microsoft trainings.

  53. M.C.

    First, “for(x in document.write){document.write(x);}”
    – can not be reproduced unless you really apply yourself to screw up your OWN client on purpose; you could accomplish that on much earlier versions but you could do so on competitors at the same time; so what’s your point there?.

    Second, all of your butt-crack rant about the versions past 6th and until 8th misses the point that IE was far more forgiving of sloppy code and inaccuracies than the others were. That in turn introduced to the world so many wannabe coders with bad habits who would not check and fix their code to work on the so called competition. Because enterprises will always go for the cheapest workforce, they often would be hiring those hacker/coder/exec-assistiant creatures to the exclusion of professionals and undercut everyone’s salaries. The former professionals then would linger at home in their parents’ basements ranting about crap and waging imaginary wars against MS.

  54. Fred Perucki

    I am currently comparing IE 9, Firefox and Chrome. IE 9 (Beta) still is a problem. Too often I get the pop up sayin that IE has encountered a problem, blah, blah, blah. Speed is often hampered when multiple tabs are opened. I get this pop up suggesting that I might want to disable some extensions and accelarators and the sad fact is that I am already using the minimum amount possible. I like Firefox best and then Chrome. I like using separate browsers to maintain separate histories. I wish I knew how to have two different Firefox browsers. The only advantage with IE 9 or Chrome is that they take up less viewing space on the screen.

  55. Ru

    I have to say, I am one of those web-designers who code to detect IE6 and block on impact, forcing the users to a Firefox or any-other-browser site.

    Just contributing my worth. :)

  56. GERALD O'CONNOR

    Jimmy Da Geek is right. Vitriolic remarks show childish ignorance. Many of these so-called geeks do have considerable knowledge about computers. However, most of these folks could not pass a Freshman examination at MIT or Caltech in computer science / engineering. These critics most likely know absolutely nothing about what is required to design, produce and market a computer.

  57. Aaron

    The fact that Win7 is required to run IE9 is going to stymie the user adaptation of the new browser. No one in a corporate environment upgrades that fast. We have zero Vista users in our office, we have 3 Windows 7 users. I might be lucky enough to be #4 and I’m the website guy.

    I’d love to try out IE9 to see if it works, but the fact that I won’t have an audience share for it higher than my IE7/8 users for another 3-4 years means any innovations that may spring up and make IE9 really fun and easy to use are pointless. Microsoft’s lackadaisical support of CSS standards on 7 and 8 hasn’t just set developers back a few years, it’ll be backwards for the better part of a decade as it’ll be years to suss out the 60% average market share of IE7 and 8 in the corporate environment.

    If they’d even let loose a Google Chrome Frame style compatible IE9 for XP, it would be a huge relief for developers, but this is MS we’re talking about.

  58. Octect

    Nice article, but this is half of the story. Nobody forces anybody. Putting it like this is like there is Big Sam telling you where to go. There is a reason why IE ( any version ) is still used in corporate environments, and that is that Google Chrome, Firefox and whatever else sucks in it. Internet Explorer has integration in a corporate environment that no other browser offers. Now, as far as geeks … in reality, they hate everything that can make life easier. It makes them loose their “magic”, the power in the only place they can shine.That is why they made Linux so popular; an OS that worked only by pushing it like a Ford T … and I stand with this thought even though I myself am writing this from Chrome and Ubuntu form my personal computer. But in my corporate environment, I don’t allow anything else than IE – otherwise I would have to hire more people.

    Aaron, you are quite right. MS has been making this kind of logical mistakes for a long while now. I guess they want to force users to go Win 7 but they forget that IE does not have that power anymore.

  59. DocHawk

    Because it is SLOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!!!!!

  60. John

    Even once IE9 comes out web development is still going to be a nightmare because a surprisingly large amount of the population still uses old versions of IE, even IE6! Sadly it will still be a while before we can truly ignore having to render a page correctly in IE if we want to keep a big percentage of people happy.

  61. Pinakin Tamboli

    I havn’t Tested IE9 completely but I am sure that IE9 is better than any other browser.
    I decided to put all browsers in a race, how?

    I started slow connection at 48kbps.
    I started downloading Chrome, IE8 & Firefox.

    Chrome & firefox setup was crashed during downloading progress, but IE8 was downloaded and installed completely, so i decided to install IE8. This is the situation at the installation end, think about other thing after installation. IE8 is better for me.

    I am a developer of Web Application as well as Windows Application. so I have completely knowledge about loop holes in Firefox & Chrome but I will not disclose those holes. Which were genuinely taken care in IE8. SO dear friends I am also using IE9 seamlessly.

  62. asdf-chan

    @Tamboli

    Mwahahaha you call yourself a webdev and prefer IE8, what are you doing plain HTML?

    Chrome & firefox setup was crashed during downloading progress, but IE8 was downloaded and installed completely, so i decided to install IE8.

    You are such a real programmer, I glory your logic.

    if(troll()){
    lol();
    }else{
    wtfbbq();
    }

  63. BevSDC

    Another reason Web developers hate IE is that Microsoft doesn’t allow you to run multiple versions of IE for testing. Also, if your computer is running Vista or Windows 7 you can’t test IE6.

    The author starts talking about IE at version 3. For those of us around at the beginning of HTML, we referred to older versions of Internet Explorer as Internet Exploder.

  64. Sparky Sparks

    Please forgive me for being an amateur in these areas. I want someone to tell me why I should not use InPrivate Browsing all the time. My guru said it would only keep someone from knowing what sites I visited not prevent those sites from attaching harmful items. Wouldn’t it prevent me from getting viruses, worms, trojans and the like? I understand that I would always have to know a password, but I have this constant fear of losing my computer to a crash. I run AVG free, AdvancedCare, CCleaner, Eset free online anti-virus & Spybot daily to get a felling of doing my best defense against a crash without purchasing a solid product to protect me. I use Windows XP on my home Sony Vaio & Vista on my Dell Studio 15. Windows defender seemed to conflict so I don’t enable that. Would I be better off actually buying a Norton or similar product? Should I buy Windows 7 for both? Any sane suggestions will be appreciated.

  65. Marc

    IE is good for one thing. Downloading Opera.

  66. Julia

    I’m not really a geek. I know my way around a computer, and some basic HTML, but I’m not a programmer or a developer or anything. I HATE IE because I am forced to use it at work. I’m not even allowed to upgrade from IE 7 to IE 8, and god forbid I mention IE 9. I don’t care how much better this is compared to previous incarnations, I am still restarting my browser at least once a day because it just suddenly decides that it doesn’t want to connect to the internet anymore. What’s the point of a browser without internet?

    And trying to use Google Docs on here is a nightmare. Though I blame Google for that, mostly. I wish Google Docs weren’t so crappy, too. :(

  67. valintine

    I see microsoft on both sides of the fence.
    Both good and bad.Every time you turn around thay have
    their hand in the pie.You said yourself that when they
    designed a good browser they went after the others
    to defeat the compatition.
    I dont see any differance between them and the federal
    government.
    Their bottom line is we run the show!
    Like it or not we all answer to the corperate world.!

  68. Simon

    IE 8 isn’t that bad, in fact I think MS is at least on the right track again. IE 9 could put them back in the field.
    However, having said that, I am a geek and I do use Firefox.

  69. noncesense

    “Another reason Web developers hate IE is that Microsoft doesn’t allow you to run multiple versions of IE for testing. Also, if your computer is running Vista or Windows 7 you can’t test IE6.”

    Are you speaking as a Web developer? I doubt it. Any Web developer worth their salt should be aware of the free IE test images Microsoft provides for download along with a free VM to run them on.

    My primary browser for the last few years has been firefox because the development tools are unparalleled. During this time MSIE, 6 the most, has been a major thorn in my side. Nothing has given me greater cause to hate than that browser.

    However, I do remember back nearly ten years ago when I first began developing on newly released MSIE 6 that nothing else could compare. There was very little you couldn’t do in MSIE 6. Even today, browsers offer little more in the way of features. Netscape had what? The epilepsy inducing blink tag? Wow. What they have done for the majority up until now is to clean those features up and take greater steps to standardise them.

    That was then, now, it sucks.

  70. Paul Mitchell

    I used to use Explorer, Then Netscape got better, so I used it. Then Netscape went down the path of having Navigator become the huge software suite that sucked…. so back to Explorer.. Then firefox came out…. so I used it… and now that Chrome is faster and more efficient I use it.

    Bottom line is…. I don’t have a hate on for any browser that is good. I just use whatever is best at the time.

    It’s just plain mental to suggest that people are emotionally attached to a certain company’s product over another.

    I will continue to use Chrome until something better comes along, if that is IE9… I’ll use it.

  71. R D

    I am surprised at the naivete of some of the responses here. Microsoft is not in the browser business; it is in the business of advancing its entire enterprise. Part of that task is to produce working components that rerflect its current emphasis from both a technological and a business perspective. While the rest of the computing world was still pounding away on text-based word processing software, Microsoft introduced a graphically-oriented word processor – Microsoft Word. Over time it became the dominant word processing tool, displacing Wordstar, WordPerfect, and all the others. This displacement did not occur because Microsoft was big, but because it was better and took more fully into account how people actually use their computers.

    While the rest of the world was trying to figure out a way for Unix to become popular, Microsoft continued along its path of producing operating systems that made it easier for peope to collaborate and to get things done without first having to memorize the equivalent of the Manhattan telephone directory and learning secret handshakes. The openness of that approach led to the first glimmers of cyber vulnerabilities because criminal elements took advantage of the benefits of Microsoft’s OS to fulfill their inner urges to be anti-social. So, Microsoft responded by closing the security holes, and it continues to do so.

    Some say that Apple has a better operating system, but if Apple had 90% of the OS market, they would be the incessant target of cyber attacks as Microsoft is today. The present day weakness of the Microsoft OS is not what makes it the most favored target for virus creators; it is its market size. Why should a hacker waste time on Apple’s piddling share of the market when he could gain potentially so much more from his criminal activity by targeting Microsoft? That’s just “good” business thinking. Apple’s OS is not fundamentally safer than Microsoft’s. It’s just a smaller target.

    For the longest time I have heard people pillory Microsoft for this and that, claiming that Microsoft was too “arrogant” or that it needed to be stopped. Well, that would all be true…IF…people who buy and use software every day did not continue to vote with their dollars, rubles, yen, yuan, marks, and francs to buy Microsoft instead of other products. In Europe, where IBM was able to maintain a foothold with its operating systems until it, too, slid into a minority position and where Microsoft was forced to strip Internet Explorer from the operating system to satisfy the decisions of EU courts, people still prefer Internet Explorer. That fact is demonstrated by looking at server logs and counting the hits from identified browsers.

    Geeks may like Chrome, Firefox, Safari, Opera, or whatever else is “Not Microsoft,” but in a world of people who have more to do and to achieve other than to be stuck in a closed loop of obsessing over the look of their computer screens, Internet Explorer satisfies the need to get things done conveniently without having to become an aficionado of all things technical. I am not saying this because I am a person who is a creature of habit and accustomed to the ways that Microsoft has fabricated its products. I am saying this because I am a so-called “Geek” who has written software applications for Chrome, Firefox, and Internet Explorer. One of the things that concerns me as a software developer is the absence of any real acknowledgement on the part of the makers of Firefox, for instance, that software developed by a private company is entitled to intellectual property protection. If I were to develop a toolbar for Firefox, it would reside on disc in the form of Javascript code that any competent programmer could tear apart and claim as his own. If I develop it for Internet Explorer, I can compile and obfuscate the code so that the pain one has to endure to steal the software for illegal purposes becomes so great that nearly all will retreat from the task. Microsoft’s operating systems (Vista and Windows 7) enforce a security model for IE (versions 8 and 9) that prevents code that runs in the browser from affecting the operating system. The same cannot be said of Chrome or Firefox which must rely on code that is internal to the browser itself. From the perspective of a developer who has learned that people do not want to be updating their application software every few days just because the company that made it has released a new version, I can say with some authority that users end up running old software more often than not. They are, however, far more fastidious about keeping their operating system files updated especially when they have a Microsoft OS and when they have been educated to take advantage of Microsoft’s free automated update service.

    This implies that the ordinary user of Firefox and Safari, for instance, are likely to running older versions. How should the makers of those products address this chronic problem? They could force users to download new versions of their products by disabling older versions after a period of time, perhaps, but that would be pretty stupid as a tactical move, or they could send out incessant barrages of e-mail notifications until every person had made the change, making dealing with those makers rather annoying. OR they could get into the OS business, design systems that allow users to update automatically, produce networking software to ensure that all machines can talk to each other, develop application software to ensure that people continue to keep their OSes installed, provide world class support, stay at the forefront of technical and business development on the full panoply of all their products…just like Microsoft.

    When one sees what Microsoft has achieved, it should trigger a bit of admiration for the company. People gripe about this or that with respect to the company, but bear in mind that it was Microsoft that first pressed for the adoption of computing standards, not the legions of its competitors. Part of the reason that HTML5 was not embraced by Microsoft in IE version 8 and below was that IE is part of an OS that is business-oriented. If you had a business that relied on things being stable and predictable, you would not want the maker of software you use to stay in business to start experimenting with new features in released software that could adversely affect your own business. Once things have settled a bit, then you might begin to expect that new features that fringe products have introduced would be incorporated into your production software, and that is exactly what Microsoft has done. It did not get cowed into supporting HTML5; it simply had to wait long enough to see how that standard would play itself out in the real world before it incorporated it into a commercial product that would be installed on more than 90% of the world’s computers and used by more than 70% of all Internet users. That is exactly the same kind of decision path that Google would make if it were in Microsoft’s shoes today with respect to the OS market.

    So, while competition is good, make no mistake. Microsoft has bigger fish to fry that the screen colors and the way that CSS places objects on a screen. After all, if competition is the panacea that most seem to think that it is, one should expect that there will be deviations from standards because after all, without those deviations the standards themselves would never change.

  72. John Tod

    I used IE exclusively and really liked IE6 SP2 as it was really stable. My wife uses it still with XP Pro. IE7 was a disaster and IE8 was not much better. I expected IE9 to fix the bugs but no, they were still there. The bugs that I am referring to are that IE would crash, not display, eat memory etc. when multiple pages are open. I tried Firefox and have never looked back.

  73. larry q

    I do not like anything microsoft period! I also resent the fact that I am forced to use it because of my on-line school.
    I honestly feel microsoft should be rigorously prosecuted in a criminal court of law for releasing windows vista as well as their other inferior crap they hype and release on the ignorant masses.

  74. bah

    baaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh

    Why do you guys keep copy pasting the same thing unchecked ?

    This code snippet is too long and misleading
    # for(x in document.write){document.write(x);}
    this is the real thing
    # for(x in open)

    The crash: enumerating properties of a native function.

  75. Yasar Tekeli

    IE is at least 5 step back from competition. They will do a great job (!) with IE9 and will go 1 step further. While they are enjoying the victory of keeping some users and gaining a little Chrome and Firefox will develop continuously. In a year or so FF and Chrome will pass IE again.
    That’s my anticipation. To be more specific, though I sympathise with FF, I bet on Chrome.

  76. anardo

    I give my clients a 30% discount when they allow me not to support IE.

  77. Di

    I’m not geek and I keep hating the IE, I prefer the Google Chrome/Firefox instead of the crashness IE

  78. jimc52

    I really love this site! It’s gotta be one of the best web sites on the net. Just thought I would throw that in :)

    In the mean time, I read this article. I have been around the world with computers since before the IBM PC was intro’ in 1981 and I went through the problems you mentioned with IE. I have always had a particular dislike for IE because of what Microsoft did to Netscape – no, I was never a Netscape fan, I just didn’t like the bullying I witnessed from Microsoft in strong-arming another company. Steve Balmer continued this by trying to run Linux out of existence, take it over, claim somehow Linux was Microsoft territory…

    The problem I wish to point out about IE9 is it is NOT going to be allowed to be used by XP users. Again, I have switched to W7 Ultimate on my computers at home, with one exception – my wife’s computer only because she refuses to upgrade…but anyhow, I think Microsoft is still bullying people – bullying because not everyone wants OR NEEDS to give up XP. I, like millions of other people at work, am forced to use IE, like it or not, on an XP computer. Where does that leave all of us? If our companies do not wish to fork over megabuckos to Billy in Redmond (as in Bald Headed Balmer), all of us have to pay the price by being stuck with IE8 until such a time as someone, like the CEO, decides to upgrade to W7. And for all those folks out there in a recession bind, they can’t afford new computers – or maybe even one old one either – but I bet they are holding on tight to their old XP computer and that means NO IE9 for them either! Microsoft, in it’s typical bullying fashion, just decided like so many other corporations, to discard America in favor of their pinchee bottom line.

    Anyway, they get to use other browsers, but so what? Why does Microsoft perpetuate their strong arm tactics? It didn’t stop with Netscape. It didn’t stop with EU violations either. It’s not so much IE that I hate, it is Microsoft itself, for being a bully. The bullying hasn’t stopped with IE9 either. Companies that have a history of doing criminal things (things they know are illegal but they do it anyway) have a tendency to find another back door to just continue doing what they want to until they are caught red handed again.

    That is why I dislike IE, not so much because it was a poor performer in the past (sometimes)…or because it causes web designers to have a hissy fit – but because I don’t like the corporate image of bullying and greed that Microsoft perpetuates without remorse and with no shame and won’t ever stop doing as far as I can see…I am still pissed at Microsoft for bullying Linux users and threatening us.
    I have a long memory…and so do a lot of other dual system users of both Windows and Linux.

  79. JasonCook599

    @The Geek

    As long as this is not a permanent change, that’s fine. Clicking on a link every once in a while isn’t that bad, but if I *still* subscribed to the 50+ blogs posting several times a day that did that, I would be clicking very often.

    If you don’t believe I read that many posts a month see this[1]. I know the number has increased, but that is because I am constantly subscribing to more and more blogs.

    I don’t think I am crazy. I read a lot tech blogs instead of books since that’s interests me. Do you think that people who read 3 665 pages in a book a month are crazy?

    And no I am not allergic to the sun. I bike or walk to school everyday. I also play hockey for a few hours each week.

    [1] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6251307/GoogleReaderStatsOctober19

  80. idont

    You should watch Doug Crockford’s TechTalk at Google to understand some stuff (about javascript, browser, code quality, bugs, etc):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQVTIJBZook

    BTW, it is a really interesting (and funny) video to watch. Every web developper should be obliged to watch it before complaining. :)

  81. Joe Larson

    As long as IE6 compatibility is an issue for developers IE will be hated. The only IE9 could to to make things better is wipe out IE6 on all computers online or off and give every developer who had to re-write their website for for IE compatibility a Tobelrone.

  82. Robobob

    Its too late, IE has already messed up the business for web devs. Its a nightmare, to say the least. Still around 15% of users are using IE6, and it will probably stay around that for another couple years. Big businesses that lock down their computers with old installations of Windows will often times have this as the only browser, not allowing someone to change it. And then the web dev lands a project for said company and devs it for ie7+ and when the company checks out their own site at work and sees it chopped up will complain… And boom the cycle repeats.

    Not only that, but WHY couldn’t IE just conform, rather than try to create their own set of rules… When we dev sites its like we essentially have to build 3 different versions. One for IE6, one for IE7+, and one for everything else. I mean it just doesn’t make sense.

  83. Manb

    And the reason why geeks won’t be using IE9? Windows 7 requirement. Why would anyone get off of Windows XP?

  84. jayzee

    > anardo,

    > I give my clients a 30% discount when they allow me not to support IE.

    Wrong way around. I charge clients an IE 6/7 penalty fee. People need to be made to question whether it’s really worth supporting old, crappy browsers.

    Not a MS hater, I think IE9 is pretty decent, the real problem is shitty corporate IT departments who haven’t done a days work since they perfected their WinXP SP3 rollout and are still telling management that upgrading is a “security risk”.

  85. Mike

    IE has sucked and always will suck for all the reasons you mention and more. I was there when they built that junk and it was only because of Gates. His infintile fears that the net would seal the demise of Windows another garbage ware app drove his desire to move into that space. Not a better idea.

    The demise of Windows is slowly becoming true as we speak, Linux is now on par with Windows (even better to some) as is most of the other browsers. At least when the Japanese stole the march on our electronics industry they did it by making things better and cheaper. Microsoft can’t seem to do either.

  86. Bob T.

    It is sad that Microsoft with its billions and thousands of programmers has been utterly unable to produce a browser that is standards-compliant and secure, after more than a decade of time to try. It’s a reminder that Microsoft can’t produce quality software, just buying it from other companies.

  87. realist

    You missed a HUGE microsoft innovation that was copied by Opera and appropriated by Mozilla, Apple, and Google,TABBED BROWSING. That’s right, tabbed browsing has been around since 1995, except that in Microsoft’s version, a tab could hold a browser, a system menu, or any other app. It’s still around, probably at the bottom of your screen right now, no matter what OS you use.

  88. Rage Man

    IE 9 sucks right now. It sounds great on paper, but is extremely laggy and unstable, particularly when you expose it to any bit of flash or java.

  89. kretinburger

    Just use Opera,the best, and stuff the rest of them!

  90. Paulexander

    You hit every nail on the head. Wow!

  91. Dwayne

    I am so tired of hearing geeks talk up Firefox so much. Honestly in my opinion it is the worst browser on the market. I used it most of last year and the beginning of this year and it crashed all the time. It has so many memory leaks it is no more secure than IE. Chrome up until 4 months ago or so was no better but honesty it is probably the fastest most stable browser on the market. IE9 beta has speed and they are making changes, after all it is a beta, so we will see how it is when it gets to final release. IE9 and Chrome are the two browsers I use most of the time. The only other browser on my computer is Opera which I even like it over Firefox. Besides IE8 on back and Apple’s sad joke of a browser there is nothing on the market I rank Firefox above.

  92. Jeff

    Internet Explorer 9 still pales in comparison as far as standards compliance and performance goes. Microsoft, once again, is holding back the web.

  93. Hayden

    I switched from IE to firefox and loved it. And I cannot convince myself to even think about switching back. I pipelined firefox so it is really fast and with custom themes firefox is the best.

  94. Raym

    I have not had any problems with IE. In fact I do not have any complaints about my operating system either. (Windows).
    I have had a few stuff-ups in the past, always through my own ambitions, and thankfully I have always had a recent backup. I know my system and its limits and do not try to push the envelope. Guys I know who have pushed the envelope are the first to blame their PC and/or its operating system, never themselves.
    One of the things I like about IE is that it recognises static backgrounds. I have not tried every other browser, only a few (nor do I wish to spend all my spare time ‘fiddling’ with them), but as yet have not found this feature on them.

  95. Joe

    You are a Microsoft idiot. The world did not start with IE 6 and there were many browsers out before that like MOSAIC and Netscape and Netscape ran Java Applets just fine…oy what a dummy.

  96. Andrew Hime

    Until there is a 64-bit Chrome, Google only has my attention, not my love. 64-bit IE 8 is actually pretty good – if I could set it as default, I might considering dropping Chrome entirely.

    I’m so sick of hearing whining and weak justifications for not going 64-bit.

  97. fairlyUnbalanced

    As I read this I wondered a few things.. was the author old enough to have used any of the browsers before IE6? Does the author realize that what they call innovation was M$ attempting to subvert open standards… they didn’t innovate at all. They attempted to corner the market by holding it hostage… remember all the ‘scripts? Like JScript for example.

    Also since I was there I do recall other browsers being available and users moved to them because they worked far better. Remember the Mozilla Browser Suite, M$ never could match it. And when IE6 came out it had to be replaced immediately. We had to roll back hundreds of business users because of the implementation of Java in IE6 (and later M$ lost a court case and huge bucks over its attempt to subvert JVM).

    Now coming to the age of IE 7, and the age of the author no doubt, why was it around so long? Why if it was so good did M$ inject patches- more than once- designed to cause competing browsers to perform poorly. Can’t a big company like M$ compete on its strengths? No.

    Would you like me to relate the story of how I spent 3+ hours removing IE 8 when it destroyed a user’s system. Better yet, let me tell you what I learned and what M$ Support (Bangalore) confirmed… IE8 is IE 6 in its heart. Amazing… see you can bury your dead but they still stink.

    So for some of us, they owe us the courtesy of demonstrating their merits and not just touting them in hit pieces in friendly media outlets.

    Bottom line, geeks test everything; they mistrust uncredited authors who show a clear bias. So I will be trying their new browser on all my systems: Win XP & 7, Various Linuxes, but not on Mac (well maybe in a VM) since M$ retreated on that years ago.

  98. Boonchai

    My computer as same this

  99. prashb

    IE has been buggy since its birth! It remains the same until there is a miracle to happen. It is not the question of geeks, anyone who uses a browser wants it to be easy, fast and reliable. As for the geeks, if there is more customisation that can be done to a browser then there is nothing that can peer it! After all customisation makes the browser as your own, the way you want it and if its works well after customisation then there is nothing more one wants. Hence geeks love their ‘customised browser’ which works fantastic!
    Popular browsers like Firefox and Opera seem to understand this very well and they provide the ‘need’ (browser) better!

  100. linuxease.com

    The next chapter will be how microsoft as a whole has lost 50% of it’s software business to Free OPEN SOURCE alternatives.

  101. Dillon Chaffey

    This is a good amount of information, however, unless Microsoft started releasing open-source software, emulated the extreme customization capabilities of other web browsers and used standards equal to those used in Firefox and stopped incorporating it into their operating system; I would not use it at all.

  102. Pineking

    Yeah, I read all about how lousy IE was, so I loaded Firefox. Two things I noticed about Firefox: a relatively unfriendly ‘favorites’ page marking setup, and all those blank pages! Every fourth or fifth link came up white. So I’m back to IE. It does need to close now and then, but not nearly as often as those white pages. I’m not a developer, just a plain user, so IE works for me. Besides, Gates is going to give all of his money away, and hoping to be downstream of that! BTW I also observed all of the complaints about Millenium – and have a bald spot on the side of my head from scratching. I think people love to complain, plain and simple

  103. abner

    is ie9 going to be released for XP though? or just win7/Vista?

  104. Tyler

    JohnA:

    Um… hello? Just start typing the bookmark you’re looking for into Firefox’ smart bar and it will find it easily The only clicking you have to do is the one time to move your cursor to the URL bar. Seems pretty quick and painless to me.

  105. Jerem

    34% of Geekologie readers would use IE? I don’t buy that.

  106. Terry Hollett

    Early in my computing history I gave up IE because I became paranoid about security and privacy. Index.dat file issues kept popping up in online forums. Microsoft claimed they where just cache files but they where better protected and hidden than the main operating system files. I still wonder why Microsoft put a “army” around a “garbage can” but left the main operating system core open to every to-bit hacker on the face of the earth.

    That’ like the president of the US saying you can bomb the hell out of the White House, but touch our garbage cans and we will send a fleet of stealth bombers up your a**.

    Anyway I chose Opera version 3 something at the time. When I got my first email account I switched to Mozilla Suite. A web browser and email client. I kept Opera around. I was concerned when the Mozilla foundation gave up Mozilla Suite that I switched back to Opera. I still use the Mozilla Suite or SeaMonkey as its called now for my email client.

    Firefox, on my older systems was a complete resource hog, these days I only use it because of an extension called “Down-Them-All”, along with A premium Rapidshare account, it’s a god-send.

    Early versions of IE where a nightmare to clean out when hijacked. I give credit to MS for the reset option in version 7 and higher. Of course I didn’t have the tools at my disposal then like I do now, like HiJackThis.

    My only grudge against Opera, current version, 10.63, is it’s crappy printing support.

    Final note, the browsers currently on my system: Opera, SeaMonkey, Firefox, K-Melon and IE7.

  107. Rob

    I prefer favourites to bookmarks. Why can’t firefox have a favourites menu on the side? Woud that be so hard?

  108. mario

    Microsoft might got a lot less flack if they didn’t bill IE9 as the greatest invention of all time. It’s still playing catch up to Firefox 2.0 in regards to HTML/CSS compliancy. And it hardly impements much of the HTML5 family of advancements. Microsoft cherrypicked a few features for which they barely had enough competency or willingness to follow the standard. And the only reason they do is because Google Chrome Frame is undermining their lock-in strategy anyhow. We geeks will embrace ALL of HTML5, and IE9 users will have to live with Microsofts recommended substandard web experience.

  109. apexwm

    IE is a resource hog, full of security holes, why would anybody want to use it? Microsoft says every new version of IE is more secure. Next thing we know, it’s full of extra baggage to try and put a bandaid on its bad security problems, yet it’s still tied tightly to Windows so it’s still a security problem. No thanks… I’ll stay with Firefox which is an excellent browser.

  110. dan

    If runs on linux (or at least wine) I’m in!

  111. j....

    everyone should change their user agents to IE… !

  112. Martin

    Well, for me the choice is simple. My main computing platform is not windows, so the times that I have to use windows I make sure I use the same browser as I use on my main platform.
    IE is obviously not an option, I am doubtful that I would use it anyways, I don’t see any compelling reason to use it over firefox or chrome or safari.

    The real good thing about ms finally fixing IE up is that hopefully the people still holding on to earlier versions of internet explorer will upgrade and that will make the web a better place for everyone. Especially developers.

  113. Alvin

    Great article! I learn a lot from you geeks!! ;-)

  114. Al W

    Hi there Geeks,

    I went over to FF a long time ago and am experimenting with Chrome. I did not think that doing this gave me Geek credentials. I think of myself as a “dabbler” who ain’t afraid of some experimentation. I’m honored to get “beGeeked” Is there a ceremony where they lay 2T USB drive on each shoulder while I am sitting at my screen thinking up ways to foil MS (the Evil Empire).

    But as to IE9, a couple of weeks ago, because I heard about this wonder product I downloaded it from MS and immediately got attacked by MegaMalware in the form of “Virus Remover IS’. It immediately tells you that your box is at risk and you need to send them $$ to activate it to save yourself. It immediately took over everything like preventing opening the task manager, windows explorer, evverything. I need to mention that I run AVG, AVAST, and Windows defender…it got by them so there must be a whole in IE9. WATCH OUT!…it is a bitch. So, maybe in six months or so I may give IE9 another try but I’m gonna’ let more adventurous geeks have at it for awhile.

    Incidentally, when I bought my present box about 30 months ago, it came with Vista. I feel like I paid MS to Beta test the abortion. consequently, I am for the past 4 or 5 months running bogus W7 and have no guilt pangs ’cause, as I said, I believe I was a victim of Beta for W7.

    I’d appreciate some advice from you wizards out there re. an alternative platform to MS; Ubutu, Red Hat, Linux, what? I don’t want go back to using DCL, DOS, or similar commands.

    Thanks,

    AAW

  115. ThomasL

    “[B]ut once Firefox and Webkit came around and started following the standards correctly…”

    That is a bit too definite. All the browsers have got their own quirks and wander away from the standards. Some less often than IE, but it isn’t as black and white as that statement would make it appear.

  116. Lennie

    @R D You are completely out of touch, you’ve been brainwashed very well.

    Microsoft is loosing market share in every market it is in.

    The browser, the operating system, on mobile, even office suits, on the server and other business applications.

  117. Homer

    It’s not entirely accurate this article.

    What happened is that the world woke up to MS’s embrace, extend, extinguish methodologies and now no one is interested in MS extensions to defined standards. Everyone knows just how bad that is for their daily computing. It worked for a while allowing them to use their monopoly position to destroy competition and hence innovation. But now more than “just the geeks” understand what we lost at the hands of MS extended standards, it’ll never be allowed to happen again.

    MS are last decades tech, and too old and slow to really come back now and play nice in the standards categories. At best they can only hope to play catch up. The chance of them ever being considered better is slim at best.

    Without the 3rd party application stack of Windows all you have is a bloated, buggy OS, with security issues out the wazoo and inferior supplied and written by MS tooling. They really haven’t ever offered the IT world anything of value, contrary to what those that grew up in the MS era may think. There is a 25 year gap of innovation between Commodore/Atari/Apple and Google/Apple now. Caused purely by MS’s interference in natural markets. Thankfully that time is now over. Onwards and upwards from here for all of us.

  118. jim s

    one simple extension which works in firefox is why I will not leave firefox. Adblock Plus. I can’t stand the flash crap that shows up in MSIE, and to too great an extent in Chrome with the adblock plugin. totally crapola. I don’t mind reasonable text junk on the left and right for ads, but I simply wont use a web site with dancing displays and lots of noise.

    It is regrettable to have to go to MSIE for some web sites who idiotically not only make their web pages only work with MSIE, but use the crap software in their data centers that require it too. I seldom if ever do it for my own purposes, but as mentioned above only when drug yelling and screaming for a client or other user.

  119. Blind

    *{position:relative} crashed IE6,7 and I believe 8, haven’t checked.

  120. Blind

    How do I comment out html so it isn’t stripped?

  121. Blind

    #style>*{position:relative}#/style>#table>#input>#/table> replace # with with left pointing arrow thing

  122. truenorthern

    Microsoft can at their whim try to lock us in to IE v.x, they can introduce “features” that will break others web sites at their whim.
    Apple can do this with Safari
    Google is certainly capable of doing this with chrome.
    Mozilla try’s anything like that, we the people, can fork it and move on.

    Freedom is anything but closed source. Microsoft is the poster child for what can go wrong with closed source.

  123. Abhishek K. Pandey

    I sincerely appreciate Firefox for their all hard work on their browser. I had all the three browsers installed on my Pc and all are latest version.
    I personally use IE since the release of IE8, and I rarely face an issue. I have also used Chrome before IE8 and my experience was that it conflict some time when you open certain two sites. Also, I don’t like its Bookmark Manager.

    @lehenryjr : I don’t think you know much about people. I use IE and many here are using IE and if we are at HTG, then how can you say “The ‘ just want to use a computer’ crowd will continue to use Internet Explorer cause they don’t know any better… And that’s the status quo– and that’ll be Microsoft target audience. That’s who they’re going after… the ‘dumb it down for me’ crowd”.
    Please try to be a bit polite, you are not a better man though.

    Seriously, I feel bad for Netscape. But, through above discussion, it seems like Geeks are loving other browsers just because they hate IE.
    Well, let me put MY priority list of browsers:
    1. IE
    2. Firefox.
    3. Chrome.
    4. Safari
    5. Opera.
    6. Maxthon.

    Others not tried yet.

  124. kurt

    The latest version of firefox, as I have it on ubuntu 10.4 is a pain in the butt;it wants to do too much.
    I have more than one email address, but if I use one too many times in a row, it no longer shows the
    sign in window, and goes straight to the heavily used one. I can’t figure how to make it stop doing that.
    Firefox gets more and more complicated in a way that emacs always was: it is too complicated to
    do every simple little thing. For this reason, I also loaded empathy browser, made for gnome, which
    behaves.

  125. kurt

    Make that epiphany browser; I AM getting senile.

  126. Abhishek K. Pandey

    And yes, two things which I don’t like about IE are:
    1. Crappy Download Manger.
    2. When switching windows it show some sort of preview which may be acached imag or whatever, but that looks buggy.

  127. Adil Hasan Mhaisker

    U didn’t mentioned the drawbacks of IE9 which are already in open (like win 7 requirement).
    Firefox has lots and lots and lots of addons… The best are we can save all our passwords and then save all those passwords with a MASTER Password (in google chrome, master password feature is lacking and hence I moved back to Firefox); and we can “sync” all our bookmarks and saved passwords so that we can access them from anywhere…

    1. Firefox
    2. Google Chrome
    3. Others
    .
    .
    (IE out of competition)

  128. Biak

    “this wasn’t as big of a problem when Internet Explorer was the only game in town”

    WHAT ? IE never has been the only game in town !
    On Windows sure, but with OS-specific-non-standard features put many other OS on margin… And many of them existed in the ’90, more than today.

  129. zebul666

    “… but once Firefox and Webkit came around …”

    I would have said Opera before Webkit. Webkit is pretty recent. while opera is there for quite a long time
    That’s the one that started to use tabs before firefox or even mozilla.

    Opera is great browser too and merit more love. more than firefox that is more geek marketing hype than technical achievement or greatness.

    Firefox is already lagging behing chrome/chromium/safari/webkit

  130. Kara Harkins

    Ugh …. IE javascript problems.

    I did the perfect example. Adding a feature that worked great it firefox through safari. Of course, it broke in IE (although the workaround was easy as it was just adding functionality rather than replacing it). I spent much longer in my attempt to get IE to work than I had done from feature conception through testing in every other browser.

    Finally I was told to throw away the effort and pull the feature as we could not have better support for firefox than IE. Forehead: meet desk multiple times.

  131. Pinakin Tamboli

    Everyone tells that they don’t like microsoft’s product,

    everyone is switching to other products (in dreams, not realy),

    If people hate microsoft then they should not use MS products.

    Browser Independent is also also a fussy concept.

    In Reality Microsoft doesn’t need any other standards.

    They have Powerful products like Visual Foxpro which alone can handle all including web, Database, Communication & Devices. Which is leaved by microsoft as is but not killed.

    it is Reserved weapon of Microsoft.

    so dear friends stop using MS products if you are honest.

  132. Pinakin Tamboli

    Everyone tells that they don’t like microsoft’s product,

    everyone is switching to other products (in dreams, not realy),

    If people hate microsoft then they should not use MS products.

    Browser Independent is also also a fussy concept

  133. Abhishek K. Pandey

    Of course there are drawbacks in IE9 and I have mentioned them too. But then this is beta version.
    I think developers are having problems with IE and that may be true also. But I am saying it just as a user.
    Well, here I would like to mention the incident with Opera Mini 5 beta 2, when it was having problems with javascript. At that time I contact opera forums and I found some totally unproductive and rude people at forums, which was claiming that Opera is all right and it was me whos script was wrong (and hence of every web developer out there). So, I can understand your thing.

  134. Bayu

    so anyone have good idea, about which one of many browse should we take (we use) and how about mobile application browse, which one i should take, is Opra Mini or the others??

  135. the old rang

    I am not a geek.

    I have only been working with, in and around computers since 1965.

    The first modem I worked with was 90Baud, using a telephone handset coupler

    I used the first real internet browser (Netscape) and saw the appearance of the deliberate attempt to destroy Netscape with a 3rd class poorly written thing Called IE.

    I have seen good software run out of business by poor software (Word Perfect lost me when it used outhouse to kowtow to Microsoft, instead of a good piece of software it already had)

    Things I don’t like about IE… ACTIVE X (it is still written in it, like Word and all their other stuff)

    Security (there is none)

    Usability (most that like IE don’t know better.)

    Keep in mind the title of the article. ‘Why do som many geeks hate Internet Explorer’

    This is not talking about technically savvy people. It is talking about people that have been through Microsoft’s long ‘we gonna burn you and you better like it process’…

    They did. I didn’t… And I don’t (use them any longer.

    I guess I am not a geek

    But, after almost 50 years in computing… I am not ignorant… I was trained in low level languages (machine and assemblers), Worked with more than a few computers (about 20??) before Carter ruined the economy, and putz around with AMDs now.

    Microsoft knows all the errors to make in securing a computer…

    They have made all of them, time and time again…

    And again…

    And again…

  136. BigJohn

    Don’t worry….
    O’Bammy will fix it all.

  137. Kellan

    Only one problem remains: convincing businesses to upgrade from IE6.

  138. Ubunter

    Well, when internet explorer be realeased will be a nice news, but i will not use any way…

  139. Adam

    Great article! I’m a web dev and I’m glad you’re helping to clarify the issue. It’s not so much that I hate IE, it’s that I hate old browsers. If people would update more often, my life would be so much easier. That’s the best part of Chrome, it’s auto-updating. I never have to worry about supporting Chrome 5, because hardly anyone is using it, in a matter of monthes after Chrome 6 came out Chrome 5 use was negligable. Now that Chrome 7 is out I can basically forget about Chrome 6. While I’ll be supporting old versions of IE for years.

  140. Sraviik

    @Fred Perucki and others … my recommendation portableapps get a portable version of your browser (Chrome, Firefox) load it on a jump drive, usb drive, external or portable hard drive and take it with you to work school home wherever.

    @R D updates in Chrome are seamless no notification they just happen and most of the time its background changes or subtle user interface changes.

    Google will learn this in time… Macrosoft discovered that governments and people want there to be a distinction between the OS and the Browser. The problem wasn’t so much that M$ was bundling IE with the OS but that it was Integrated to such a degree that it couldn’t be removed without breaking everything. in fact its still integrated just not as noticeable.

    Firefox notifies the user of updates but doesn’t force an update yet.

    The biggest problem with forced updates that I can see is that if a bad update comes through it could trash the software.

    as for security Google does much better it warns you on detected phishing, malware, and other disreputable sites.

  141. Ramesh

    Wow. i was just hating IE for one reason and one reason only. It crashed so often. Now, i knew why and all the developments MS has really brought along with early stages of IE. incredible. I change from HATER OF IE to expecting a GOOD IE.

  142. Andria

    “And the reason why geeks won’t be using IE9? Windows 7 requirement. Why would anyone get off of Windows XP?”

    I’ve wondered that myself — I mean, look at that nightmare called “Vista”. Anyone remember DOS 4.0? Anyone who uses Microsoft products (which is probably at least 98% of us) should always wait till the bug-fix comes out — and there will always be a bug-fix, because every new version of everything they make has bugs — Win7 is the bugfix for Vista. You should wait till at least Win7.1, or Win7 SP1 or whatever they call it — it’s still a bug-fix.

    Someone above said we never buy MS products, we rent or borrow them — it’s actually worse than that — we’re paying for the privilege of being their beta testers.

    Someone else wrote a very cogent comment about MS’s bullying tactics, and I agree wholeheartedly. I despise bullies, especially those in $10,000 suits who want to force me, a mostly unemployed self-employed website developer, to buy a whole new machine just to run win7. Bah humbug. I like XPpro, because it actually WORKS — and operating systems from MS that will do that are very few and far between. Remember DOS 4.0 — hordes of us went back to DOS 3.x till they came out with 4.01. XP Pro is the best MS OS since Win 3.1.

  143. slimshady6291

    IE 9 is crap i just used it…….. it freezes when loading pages that has exclusive content like pictures videos etc in them ..when when i try to refresh it suddenly restart the tab ……

  144. Raymond

    Whatever, Chrome and Firefox are more than enough for me at the moment and I don’t give an F what the do to IE, never cared anyway and was deeply hurt by what they did to Netscape. Safari is very lousy too.

  145. Eric Lin

    Great article for me to know a bit about IE history, thanks. But I would continue with Chrome as it is the only browser that makes me happy.

  146. mark

    it’s got to be better than that POS firefox that everyone was conned into thinking was better than sliced bread. I’m moving to IE9

  147. asdf-chan

    @Pinakin Tamboli aka Mister “Webdev/Desktop-App-Coder”

    Mac is very popular, besides Mac there is also Ubuntu which is almost as terrible as Mac and Windows together but still is neither one of those and is still popular. People are forced to buy at least one M$ product which is M$ Office, because offices use it and they use it because M$ has the monopoly and they get support if shit goes wrong and to be honest, LibreOffice/OpenOffice is atm no match. Why is it no match? Because most time spending on LibreOffice/OpenOffice is reverse engineering, not actuall coding.

    VFP … nothing what Eclipse couldn’t handle and besides the fact that Eclipse is OpenSource and can be used for C, C++, Java, Python, PHP, etc, it is plattform independent and the languages are also OpenSource, same for the runtime environment or compiler.

    And what pisses on the most is that every fu**ing company in this fu**ing world makes it’s own idiom, and Microsoft is the king when it comes to idioms and standardization. Just look at the C/C++ compiler from Intel, Microsoft and GCC.

    Srsly dude, just stfu

  148. Hannan Naseer

    For a while Opera was the best ….but now i think Firefox is the king and apple safari is the second best browser ….and Chrome – Avant – Maxthon and all IE dependence browser are the worst….

  149. Sparky Sparks

    I believe that these companies are in business to make a profit. Ford Motor Company makes cars that break down. My mechanic friend believes that Ford makes money fixing problems, not so much by selling the new cars. Could it be that whoever makes the most profit for their shareholders is doing the best job? God Bless America where we can choose which product to buy. You can visit every credible forum on the internet & you will find the same discourse. No 10 people agree on the same diagnosis of the situation & solution. I actually did my best to read every answer & what I learned is that no 2 scenarios are the same. To each his own. Say your prayers, pay your insurance, and work on the man in the mirror.

  150. Mohammad Nadeem Bhatti

    I Like Mozila Firefox And Its Adds On What A Nice.
    ThunderBird Is Most Good As Compare To Outlook Express

  151. Ms Sunbeam

    I’m definitely in the over 30 crowd who seeks and finds help from my 30 something kids in the area of technology. I’m speaking only from my experience. I live in a rural area that has only dial-up Internet service. I use AOL as a browser although I’ve tried to use IE. IE doesn’t work. An error message always appears on my screen. Forget downloading videos. Other pages take a while to download. It is quite an education for me to read these comments!

  152. Ash V

    I pioneered Firefox usage in my previous company Unfortunately, not many web-sites would open properly with Firefox at that time (2004-2005). I like Chrome. However Chrome has its own stability issues as of now. The best of the lot that I like the most & still use …. OPERA 10.x (started using Opera 8.x). As far as Microsoft products are concerned … they are proclaimed to be a breakthrough technology, however, end up adding tons of Patches & Updates to keep it running (or prevent it from crashing). This applies to IE8 as well.

    Open source software are better in that case … The Real Geeks can modify it the way they want it to be …! Microsoft $*cks @ that ..!

  153. TJRedneck

    I have been using Firefox for a few years now, although I am forced to use IE at work. I remember when IE7 came out and how it became so similar to Firefox in the way it looks. Microsoft waits until Firefox upgrades then it copies those upgrades to IE. The one thing that this article misses is that the biggest reason that we hate Microsoft is that Microsoft steals, not inovates! Bill Gates is the modern day Black Beard the Pirate! It looks like they are going to get their just dues though, Apple is positioning itself to really blow Microsoft away with all of their new products, and Sony’s PS3 is doing the same to the POS XBOX. Unless of course Microsoft figures out a way to copy their technology and upgrade their crap with it.

  154. John

    The article does not go back far enough. MS tried selling IE in my day and copied everything Netscape had done but still couldn’t get any one to buy it or use it. It was a knock off and we hated that.

  155. Aaron

    Die hard Firefox here. IE9 just means there’s another browser I gotta make sure my designs work on. Sounds like it may be good news for 10 years down the road, or so. When 7 and 8 eventually fade away…

  156. Rebecca

    Sure, IE 9 will change the world. Only, half the world is still on Windows XP, so good luck with that.

    Microsoft is desperate to keep IE’s head above water, while at the same time kill Windows XP. Their decision not to release IE 9 to XP is foolish and close-minded. XP will live on another several years, and IE 9′s market share will take a huge hit. Too little, too late.

    I tried IE 9, and I’m not at all impressed. Too much like Chrome. I’m going to stick to Opera for now; much more stable and standards-complient.

  157. Toby Downey

    I started with Netscape 1.0 OOOOOOOOO graphic browser, eventually evolved with IE untill firefox came out, fell in love, then switched to google chrome, no thinking about fingering back into IE9 or waiting until the new firefox come out. Whichever way it falls the technology will ocntinue to evolve making the internet better and better as it integrates more and more into our daily lives.

  158. bigBADguy

    A fact is a fact, Monoploy is bad for competition. And competition is good for innovation. For me, IE6 has is a life saver for “few” years.

  159. RocketTurtle

    Agreed. I have too abandoned IE and installed Opera(my default browser), Chrome, Firefox. Used them all and all worked decently great…cause IE was just too buggy for me. I’m interested in the new IE9 though.

  160. Thekev

    I don’t care if MS comes out with IE 200.43 I will stick with Opera with the ‘identify as IE/Firefox/etc’ add-on sitting on the tool bar for when I need to log on to microshafts website for some reason, and have never had any crashes from it as I did with IE and Netscrap back in the days of the gulp! 8088-486 PC’s I will say that I am glad that Microsoft finally came out with an upgrade for Windows 3.0 this past year with the release of Windows 7. I don’t rightly know what they were thinking when they came up with the other OS’s but I guess when you are that rich you can do as you want to do.

  161. mbd

    I started using Netscape when it was a pre-1.0 beta, and worked for Netscape from 1998 for a few years. MS had a habit of buying their way into a market that already existed, exploiting it through anti-competitive means, and leaving everyone worse off. It didn’t start with IE and it didn’t end with IE. But you can still see them trying nowadays to gain markets without actually being a source of innovation. Luckily a lot of the world has woken up and realised that they’re a company who’s history from the very start was based on stealing and/or buying other people’s ideas, then proceeding in most cases to ruin them.

    That’s why I hate IE

  162. Mooseman

    If everybody goes to IE9, we (web designers) would be thrilled! But seriously, we (at least I) still get IE6 users on our sites! From my experience with IE9 beta, there is TOO much hardware acceleration. It completely drains available resources if i’m going back and forth with my HTML/JS editor! If I could get IE6 for my Win7 starter, I would.

    Between FireFox and Chrome, They’re FAR better. If only 100% of web users agreed…

  163. wildemanne

    sounds like another stupid browser trick to me i will stick with the fox better by open source not a corperate balloned hog thats too slow for any internet

  164. spaz

    Microsux and Bill Gates wants to kill the world.

  165. Jonng

    It isn’t over until everyone else stop using IE6.

  166. Auto Tool Shop

    The truth is no matter how you hate IE, you have to install it.

  167. KeithB

    @Auto Tool Shop

    I use Ubuntu Linux 10.10 (Maverick Meerkat) and we have no IE on it at all, only free, open source software such as Firefox. If it weren’t for the massive market share Microsoft has, and the fact gamer support is mostly for Windows, I’d dump Windows for all time..

  168. patricia

    I used to love IE back in the days. Now I just use Firefox. It is faster and I do not get that crazy error message anymore. And imagine, I am not ever really good at computers.

  169. Ho Lee Chit

    Run some IE browsing tests. Still, Some important* elements of web pages are behaving wrong/or missing. NO I WILL NOT SWITCH TO IE9.

  170. Ed T

    IE6 is going to be around for a looong time. Check the browsers market share for Asia/China and you’ll see what I mean.

  171. Karl Stevens

    I remember IE4 on Unix, and I also remember it was freaking useless.

    IE4 for Unix required that you run it as *ROOT*. Yes, MS took their “wonderful” Win95 security model (known as “no security at all”), and tried to foist it on the Unix world.

    Why on earth did a web browser need root you ask? I have no idea. MS never said. But it was enough to make me want to never touch it.

  172. pradyumna

    Still in IE9, tabbed browsing is pathetic!!! You open a new webpage in a new tab & wait until the server responds to your request, because IE virtually stops responding till that webpage in new tab gets reply from its server & thus meanwhile u can’t even browse ur current tab!!!

  173. windows 7 was *my* idea...

    …reading through these fascinating historical posts it suddenly dawns on me the new windows 7 ad campaign has bit of strange irony embedded within its subtext with that typical slothful microsoft ambiguous failure/refusal/inability to articulate fully so you wonder are they even getting the irony or worse did they intend it? i mean all these bouncy college kids on dorm and young professionals on the go proudly pronouncing “and windows 7 was my idea…” as if there were some kind of strange cultural kool aid being passed around everytime someone bought their pos dell at bestbuy..

    is this ad campaign tongue in cheek or is the ms ad dept as dumb as the dev and exec crowd? think about it..the idea that you share OWNERSHIP in this new OPEN product that rewards INDIVIDUAL INNOVATION AND AUTONOMY …. um, excuse me, but are not these the very qualities ms as viewed historically as the ENEMY, and is not trampling these the very mo that got ms all its m$ and perpetuated the stifling mediocrity suffocating so many from casual idiot’s guide reader to savvy hot rodder?

    i mean for a spllit second watching those psychotically upbeat ads you could imagine yourself watching an ad for Linux/open source, an ad for truly psychotic apple addicts, or best of all, an ad for the ghosts of all those innovative software developers MS either bought out or drove out of business back in the day, usually both, as it turns out….

    i mean they have these phantoms of all the ms haters right there in these bouncy kids with their cheesy smiles over what, ms’ new aero eye candy and dumbed down windowing and transparency…

    really what a bunch of pathetic nerds ms was and always will be

    reading this has convinced me to go back to my suse yet again and never go back

    i can always virtual pc xp out of suse if absolutely necessary

    it’s time

    who cares about netflix

  174. newbie

    I use slimbrowser ( Flashpeak ). I like their secure ftp software and the internet browser… “slimbrowser”….

  175. Andri

    Been on Opera since 2003, nothing has come out so far that comes close. But I guess I’ll try IE 9 just for fun..

  176. Nelle

    “Too many cooks spoil the broth!” IMHO this is M$’s problem. Everything M$ has released has been a bloated pig and each new version IMHO has had exponentially more bugs. I will bypass bad mouthing their business philosophy. I have been using Vista because it’s on the machine I bought. Ubuntu works better. But no two people see things the same way, so it really is POV.

    I have used Chrome since Beta, and with it’s problems still found it did a better job for me than IE, Foxfire, & Opera. Foxfire and Opera do have some things Chrome doesn’t have, but I’m prejudiced. I like software that is concise, quick, and gets the job done.

    It’s sort of like checking out different restaurants. You eat around, and somehow you go back to some and not to others because the over all satisfaction is there.

    Frankly, IMHO many pigs, and they are not terrible intelligent and certainly are not educated, would bypass M$ Slop.

    Since M$ has pretty much had the market to its self, they have grown fat and lazy. Wish I had a dollar for everytime BG said we were going to have more FUN and get more work done. Seems to me he missed his calling. He should be selling ice boxes to Eskimos.

    So, if a software company wants to impress me, they should write tight code that doesn’t crash, does it in our lifetime, & forgoes the BS[G] Ads.

    If any of you guys are truly Geeks, how come you’re using M$ instead of Linux?

    OK, I know they make you use M$ at work, but don’t you Geek at home? Corporate types don’t want Geeks. It’s like Charley the Tuna. Starkist isn’t interested in Tuna with good taste. They want tuna that taste good!

  177. JC

    Where’s the button “Love this article”?

    True… Very well written.

  178. Shayn

    soooo true….i m loving u geek and ur website…..so enlightening=)

  179. Rowlfe810

    The way I remember things from teh 80′s and early 90′s was unless you bought an apple/mac you also had to buy an operating system (msdos, drdos, ibmdos, windows) until windows 3.11 was placed in ‘public domain’ and all of a sudden you could buy a pc, take it home and start using it right away. Then Windows 95 was released with MUCH fanfare and a notation that it had 5000 KNOWN bugs. That’s when the general public became unrewarded beta-testers for MS.
    That’s how I recall it anyway.
    my 2¢

  180. Joe

    So if I understand this right, IE is sort of like like Obama-care (no I don’t want to open a political rant/debate here, just using it for comparison). Here we have a perceived evil empire/authority shoving something most of us don’t want right down our throats. Right or wrong, you better accept it “or else!” seems to be the mind set which also seems to go against the very spirit of what America and the free world is all about – freedom!

    My only question is should I ever trust Microsoft with anything again? I mean, MILLIONS of people were complaining about IE and other Microsoft products for years. But what do they do? They (Microsoft) tightens their grip by incorporating IE into their overpoweringly dominant operating system Windows. And Windows is that one little product that’s even worse when it comes to choice. Yet nearly the whole WORLD has had Windows shoved down their collective throats for so long that most of them don’t even notice it any more. Don’t even get me started on that other Microsoft product “Office”! (You do know there is a completely free alternative from Oracle, don’t you?)

    And if you care to even look at the History of Microsoft you might like to start off with a couple of company’s called Digital Research and Xerox who were Bill Gates’s first victims! (Steve Jobs is not exactly immune here either particularly when it comes to Xerox.) So is there any wonder that some of us have dropped IE like a bad habit and are starting to migrate to Linux?

    No sir. I HATE MICROSOFT! And I have good reason particularly when confronted with their HISTORY as well. It’s not just Internet Explorer either. It’s the whole darn company. Microsoft simply doesn’t play fair but for that I can at least forgive them since this is after all America where market dominance should win. What I primarily disagree with are the tactics Microsoft took to get where they are. I also hate the outrageous PRICES which seem to be totally unjustified too. And for that I can only blame each of US for PAYING FOR IT!

  181. theblackfridaygirl.

    I will never go back to IE, now that I have chrome.

  182. vezikon

    Microsoft still didn’t learn from the past

    the new IE9 Beta still show the messages .. ” Internet exp. need to close ” or ” not responding ” .. same problems

    also no signs can show you is the page loading or what

  183. Jesus

    Well, where I appreciate your enthusiasm I can’t help but return to the age-old saying: “you can’t polish an IE.” My main issue with IE isn’t even really with IE, because you can just use a different browser. MY MAIN gripe with IE is the fact that there are stains, YES!! STAINS!!!! (I would use a more profane description but it would be deleted), out there who refuse to update to IE7 let alone 8 (or when it’s out 9)!!! It’s because of these m****r-f*****g c**ts/business who refuse to upgrade that we web developers still HAVE to code for these piece of s**t browsers.
    Ahem… sorry about that. Better now that’s off my chest.
    Right… Back to the coding for r-tards…

  184. Satan, Prince of Darkness

    Here’s why MS apps suck so badly: In the deal I made for Bill’s soul, he got to be the richest man in the world for a while, but only if he could figure out how to waste the equivalent of 10,000 hours of productive time for every man, woman, and child in the world. I sure got my money’s worth from that deal! Ha! And all the whining here just proves it. Thanks, suckers. Keep buying MS products. Now *that’s* innovation.

    @Jesus: Hey, dude, I haven’t heard you cuss that much since I tempted you in the desert back in the day! >:-)

  185. Pawel

    I quote pradyumna’s post above

    “Still in IE9, tabbed browsing is pathetic!!! You open a new webpage in a new tab & wait until the server responds to your request, because IE virtually stops responding till that webpage in new tab gets reply from its server & thus meanwhile u can’t even browse ur current tab!!!”

    Isn’t just this single thing pathetic? If that happened to me, I would drop the browser immediately! I do believe most people use IE out of ignorance. They’re brainwashed by the hype. They believe that they’ve got ‘tabbed browsing’ like the ‘real’ browsers, and since they haven’t tried real tabbed browsing, they believe it’s what tabbed browsing is about: waiting in your new tab until it loads. It’s the same with the hype about IE9′s “amazing” speed. I read a serious review by a serious developer who ranted about how fast IE was, and how it might make him switch to it. But in the same article he revealed all the test results from which it was clear that IE9 was having problems in almost every other area, and in most areas it was HUGELY slower than FF or Chrome. Still, in one test, a page loaded 20% faster. Yeah, it’s SPEEDY, man!

  186. andrew

    I must say that I am not impressed with Microsoft at all and it would take a lot to repair their names in my book, I grew up using there computers and was forced to use a Mac and a Lynix computer at work and after I got used to them I could not go back, these computers out performed $6,000 Windows computers that were 3 years newer.

    I will stick with Safari and Chrome. I have Opera and Firefox too for Web Development. With Macs able to run Windows OS I can test sites on IE too, but I will never us it to actually look at anything on the internet. I feel sorry for people who don’t know how bloated Microsofts products are.

  187. Yuhong Bao

    “Microsoft just stopped trying—seriously, they did nothing for 5 years even after Firefox was released and geeks started migrating left and right.”
    Not exactly. You forgot IE 6 SP2, released as part of XP SP2, released just before Firefix 1.0.

  188. Jer

    Just as infuriating as the fact that IE disrupted beautifully constructed web pages is the fact that Microsoft is so dictatorial–and arrogant might even be the better word. The idea of a great bloated toad burping out careless and negligent orders to the millions of tadpoles can only produce a feeling of heartburn in the sensitive geek breast, where order, perfection and flawless functioning are eternal ideals, and careless disregard of technical requirements is the maximum harm. If this deliberate ignoring of the factors that make for perfection arises out of a consistent hunger for greedy private profit, then all of geekdom is offended and insulted, and quite right. Did Microsoft create 30 or more billionaires in top management during these years of IE negligence? That is the rumor, and no one has denied the reputed 50 billion in personal fortune of the head geek. But this is a geek who should have known better, and should never have been playing disingenuous and arrogant corporate games for the sake of money and power, at the expense of the great substratum of honest and dedicated geekhood that is the true base of the computer revolution, the ardent legions of uncompromising cyber/digital perfectionists. If Microsoft will no longer speak for them, then the quest for microminiaturized goodness and hand-tuned, assembly-level software beauty moves on.

  189. Spyder Monkey

    Thank you much for such detail oriented article, much appriciated such wonderful information. Did not know the history behind it, is never late to learn something. Once again thanks to all who contributes to this website :)

  190. eeb2

    Nice article! the statement you made…Geeks don’t hate something that’s inferior—but they do hate it when it’s forced on them….Geeks are naturally drawn to an inferior product, they want to actively hack it and contribute to making it better…you just can not do that with closed source products. I think this is one of the greatest reasons that open source technologies continues to grow year after year.

  191. Jon

    It’s just software. Not sure how someone can put effort into “hating” what comes down to 1s and 0s.

    I actually like IE9 and how it integrates with the Windows 7 taskbar, to pin shortcuts to it. But, I’m an Opera user since switching from an always unstable Firefox. Opera 11 is by far the best browser with a vanilla install. I see no reason to try anything else when no other browser puts so much effort into making a polished product like Opera does.

  192. indianacarnie

    I too sing the praises of Opera. Have tried all the major browsers including the ie9 beta, and a bunch of the smaller ones, accoo, iron etc. and nothing compares with Opera as far as ease of use and speed. Maybe with all the effort the Opera people are putting into their mobile stuff , others will be tempted to try the “main’ browser and we’ll get to see chrome,ie(whatever), and firefox struggle to catch up.

  193. wevenhuis

    Just doscovered two more reasons to not recommend IE9:

    1. commenting on websites through the obligatory facebook login works in chrome, but keeps on crashing in IE9

    2. I discovered a flash video on a website page did run on chrome but not in IE9.

    Both are not one time events.

  194. Geek

    I HATE IE9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  195. Chuck

    I am a former IE user and now a firefox user and decided to give the new IE9 a whirl.

    Last night I installed IE9 RC on my wife’s laptop; Vista operating system. Immediately pages started crashing. The entire program doesn’t crash however the individual page tabs do. I was getting repeated internet explorer stopped working dialog boxes. The problem wasn’t isolated with any particular page; I noticed that if I typed too fast in the Google search box with instant on for example, the page would crash. I decided to search Microsoft for help with the issue. I downloaded Microsoft FIXIT automated troubleshooting tool. It scanned and said there was a problem with a yahoo tool bar add on so I disabled it. In fact I disabled all the add ons and extensions and it still crashed.

    Additinoally, while poking around the ad-ons I noticed that there is not a real adbloc add on; the anti-tracking and private browsing does not stop the targeted ads.

    Using my firefox with Adblock, I do not get any ads whatsoever. I can Google items and there are no ads on the right side showing my location and who can sell me that item. Also, facebook is crispy clean.

    With IE9 private browse even with simple ad block, facebook was just as cluttered and there were targeted ads.

    Here was the kicker: I wake up this morning and my angry wife is asking what I did with the computer- it keeps crashing. I didn’t believe her and while she was playing frontier-ville on facebook- sure enough, the blue screen of death with physical memory dump. I havent seen that since Windows 98.

    Maybe its my wife’s laptop I thought so I tested IE9 on my desktop; Windows7 operating system..yikes…same thing.

    Neither computer has any exotic software on it; just your normal standard stuff like antivirus(McAfee), Microsoft Office suite 2007, and other purchased programs.

    I ended up uninstalling IE9 and now my computers are running great. In fact, I uninstalled IE altogether and am sticking with Firefox.

    Sorry, I gave it a valiant effort but I cant run this on my machines.

  196. xdr

    I love IE6 when I use a really shitty computer (celeron 500 or less) because without it I wouldn’t have been able to get on the internet.
    I still use firefox on my daily computer, while I must use IE6 for testing purposes (web apps) .
    I tried all these new and “better” navigators and always returned to firefox. They just ain’t so stable and resourceful.

  197. Erwinus

    Okay guys, just one thing. Stop using hacks for IE. When it’s ugly in IE (but still working when it is not too much trouble), leave it that way so users of your sites can see the difference between browsers. Place a note on your website that it will looking better in other browsers like firefox, chrome or safari so they cannot blame you. Let your users know there are alternatives (not only the blue e that is associated with internet). Users must see the difference, don’t use hacks to get the same look, that’s stupid and that’s the fault. They don’t see your pain to get it compatible with this horrible piece of shit. Don’t use images when you can do it with CSS, that’s the difference between browsers.

    Developers can break IE if they want but every developer on the planet must do this. When we do it all together and the user of the website can see the difference, there is an reason to switch. When user cannot see the difference there is no reason for them to switch!

    Stop IE hacks and inform your clients about alternatives, it’s free and not bad,almost it’s better. When every developer do this it can change the world of browsing. Site visitors must not blame you about the looks, the must blame Microsoft but they have to be informed that there are alternatives to use and that is really better and matters.

    Stop IE Hacks now!

  198. Chris Jolley

    “…and supports HTML5 surprisingly well…” hmmmmmmm… ORLY? I will believe it when i see it in a final release. Canvas tag anyone?

  199. rushfan54

    Honestly, Chrome beats out all browsers by a mile. And to you web devs, why do you even bother supporting IE? If people want to browse the web using a pile of cow sh*t, they obviously don’t deserve to view your webpages.

  200. rhon

    Let’s just wait on what will be the changes on upcoming IE guys..

  201. Camusensei

    Interesting article… but not complete

    I don’t have enough time to read all the comments on it, and saw that a lot were still raging against IE, but nvm.

    I have always been using IE (6, then 7 and 8) since 2002, and am still doing so. I also have Firefox for the very few web pages that don’t display correctly… But it’s really a pain for me to start FF since it takes 5 seconds to load every time I start it… where IE needs only one at most.

    Then I upgraded to IE9, and noticed a big problem: Less web pages display wrongly, the browser is globally faster, the cool (double-)address bar is a great improvement…

    _BUT_ some web pages have just an enormous problem: THEY CRASH ! A good example is the League of Legends ‘Champion build’ pages on mobafire, that just crash after 20 seconds viewing… even if you don’t touch the browser ! A lot of websites have this very annoying problem, and since FF can’t seem to understand what the word “fast” means, I’m going to switch to Chrome which is a really good browser. I couldn’t find anything missing in Chrome yet… If you already did, please tell me !

    Camusensei

  202. Camusensei

    A small improvement for my comment :

    I did find a small problem in Chrome : Reloading a page using POST doesn’t work, and I’m sure using the _great_ forum google has set up for chrome will get me the solution to my problem.

    Camusensei _ Again, interesting article, but not complete _

  203. Abhay MIttal

    A question:
    Why does every company spend lots of money on web browsers of its own if browsers are free to download & use? Why do companies have hundreds of executives for working on web browsers & updating them?

  204. Bish

    This site must be new. The authors may not have been around that long.

    There’s no mention of how Microsoft met with Netscape, early on, what was said and what happened next.

    It’s kinda made me rethink the credibility of this site. It’s a pretty glaring omission.

  205. Aero

    Internet explorer is the worst browser i have ever seen and it wont be better. IE 9 is now installed and its the worst and worst and slowest and most stupid program you can work with it in the world.
    Use fire fox instead. It is the best and best and fastest and smartest program you can work with it in the wold.

  206. Jim Mooney

    Ain’t over since, in a greedy marketing ploy, IE9 only works on Win 7. And there are a Lot of XPs still out there.

  207. Ethan

    Good article!

    If I ever run my own site, I’ll insist that users upgrade to the latest version of any browser. IE 6 is still out there, lurking around the corner. IE 7 even more so. 6, 7, and 8 were all very buggy browsers. The only reason that 9 doesn’t seem to be as buggy is because it’s more strict in how it lets you code, where FF, Chrome, and Opera just assume that you want to code correctly.

    For instance, when you create an object, if you forget to var it, other browsers will do it automatically for you, including earlier versions of IE. 9 does not; it will break unless you var everything properly.

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