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Win8 Backup Imaging of disks, which one?

(60 posts)
  • Started 1 year ago by ispalten
  • Latest reply from whs
  • Topic Viewed 4617 times

LadyFitzgerald
Posts: 2232

Well, I just pulled the trigger on Macrium Reflect Pro 4 pk.

Posted 1 year ago
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whs
Posts: 17584

Irv, I think that 'disk space management' is a non issue. I have assigned a couple of 500GB and 640GB disks for images only and it takes a while for those to fill. From time to time I go in and weed them out. At least that way I am in control and not some algorithm that does things that I may not want.

Posted 1 year ago
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germ-x
Posts: 5310

Irv, Have you tried booting your system with your Ghost recovery disk and making your image that way?
I had the win8 preview installed a while back and that's how I was able to make my win8 images. A little cumbersome but it worked.

Posted 1 year ago
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ispalten
Posts: 6259

Germ, well, Ghost has one identified problem and some it seems NOT identified.

The main problem is that you can NOT put the license in, keeps saying it is invalid. Seems to be due to registry change. The program does work but it has the 30 day trial clock running. After 30 days it will no longer work. Folks say all you need do it wipe it clean and re-install and you'll have another 30 days.

This is Symantec's 'formal' response :

=====================
Symantec does not have a Windows 8-compatible version of Norton Ghost at this time. Ghost continues to be fully compatible with the Windows XP (SP3), Windows Vista, and Windows 7 platforms. Attempting to install or use Norton Ghost on Windows 8 may result in unexpected results, such as incomplete imaging.

Symantec recommends using Norton Online Backup to protect your important files in a secure, remote location in the cloud. Should you need to back up files using Windows 8, you can use the File History feature of the new operating system. And to refresh and restore your computer, users can use the Advanced Recovery Tools found in the Control Panel. For small businesses, Symantec recommends Symantec System Recovery to create full image backups of your PC. Symantec System Recovery 2013 is planned to be Windows 8 compatible and available in Q1 CY2013.

We will announce updates as they become available. Thank you for your ongoing support and interest in Norton Ghost.

Tony Weiss
Norton Forums Global Community Manager
Symantec Corporation
========================

Clear indication that one might need to use something else but it will not be available until early next year.

Of course, this part bothers me, "Attempting to install or use Norton Ghost on Windows 8 may result in unexpected results, such as incomplete imaging."

It seems that there are more than 4 ways to do the imaging, Ghost, Acronis, Macrium, and Paragon. Not all have W8 solutions though. As far as Macrium goes, I need the disk management, so I'm looking at the fee based version. I could probably rig up something to delete the first set or do it manually, but I don't want too. I assume most use it here as it is free. Others cost generally. I don't want to make a project of determining which I should buy or which is best? System 'load' is subjective anyway, and with a 1TB drive devoted to backups (I keep 5 copies, one per week of 3 partitions) space or I should say compression isn't a big deal to worry about.

What I need is :

- Automated backup and if the computer is off when scheduled it be started on next boot or at least a warning (like Ghost did) that one was missing and do I was to do it?
- Disk space cleaner that removed older backups after x images are there.
- Easy single file recovery using the application
- No notice on the system that it is running and no noticeable effects on system usage.
- Easy restore.

I was hoping people who used ANY of the various imaging programs can provide information to help me make a decision.

Oh, the last line in the above announcement, "We will announce updates as they become available. Thank you for your ongoing support and interest in Norton Ghost." can be read as there will be a Ghost update to fix this problem. I've paid for it, don't know if I should wait or not? Can't get an answer out of Symantec at all?

Irv S.

Posted 1 year ago
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ispalten
Posts: 6259

Hmm, looks like Paragon has release v12... supports W8.

FREE 'compact' version available HERE today only.

Got it down, and if the FULL is the same as the compact, I don't like it. You have to 'create' a 'capsule' it seems to manage backup space, and I assume that means iterations of images... no thanks.

Irv S.

Posted 1 year ago
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germ-x
Posts: 5310

Irv, If you go to Paragon Hm pg there is a little note saying support for windows 8 coming soon. Guess the compact version is the only one win8 ready.
Have you tried booting with the Ghost recovery disk then making your image from outside windows environment

Posted 1 year ago
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ispalten
Posts: 6259

Germ, yeah, but the 'feature list' shows that 12 supports W8, but the compact and standard. I did take it down, and it doesn't limit the number of images, but you can carve out a 'capsule' on a drive that will limit space used. Don't want to do that.

I took down the Acronis program trial. It will limit the images saved. Maybe the one I want?

Just hoping others here can share experiences on the one they use?

My wife just woke up to Ghost not being registered... went on Symantec and couldn't find info, and then started a chat. Never was able to connect, I guess they were busy or out to lunch... but they have posted a FAQ that W8 isn't supported.

Irv S.

Posted 1 year ago
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ispalten
Posts: 6259

Some 'interesting' data I found while under test...

Ghost image size on my W7 system :

C: 47GB's
K: 128GB's

Installed Acronis True Image and make same images :

Acronis combines the images into one file, 168GB's

Default compression used in both.

Windows 8 machine Ghost images :

C: 36GB's
D: 98GB's
E: 6GB's

Macruim installed on W8

C: 33GB's
D+E: 104GB's

Now I didn't do much more the ensure the data was the same, these images were done on different dates, and there could be some file/folder optimizations done. At first blush it appears Macrium and Ghost do the same compression (on Win8 there were some programs installed on C: between the dates of the images).

The W7 situation surprised me. Larger to Acronis and I can't determine why? Nothing really changed on the system between the images?

I'm thinking I'll need to get Macrium fee based version. However now I've been led to believe Norton will have a W8 solution 'early next year' for Ghost... and knowing what they did in the past, new version...

Irv S.

Posted 1 year ago
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whs
Posts: 17584

I used Ghost for a long time and now I use free Macrium. I personally think that Macrium is the better product. Much easier to use and super reliable. I never saw a need for the pro version. But then I am a fan of full images - I really don't like incrementals and differentials.

Regarding the compression ratio, you can, of course, change the ratio. But I never saw a need to do that. The compression on the OS partition is usually bigger than on a data partition. The reason is because the OS partition houses a lot of 'storage' areas like pagefile and hiberfile that are being compressed to nothing.

Posted 1 year ago
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ispalten
Posts: 6259

With the FREE version Bill you MUST manually handle the disk space, no? I guess as it saves images when you can't fit one in you get a warning and then manually free space? OK for me, but not too sure about for my wife? Have I got that correct or am I missing something?

I only do FULL IMAGES too, and keep 5 iterations, one per week. Occasionally I'll save off a set to an external drive 'just in case', but have never needed that. Bigger problem I hit is my wife 'doing something wrong' or 'picking up something she shouldn't' and on a few occasions I've had to do a rollback to the last image. I've got scripts to run to save e-mails and other 'constantly' changing data. Only problem is most games hide stuff in the registry and it is quite hard to locate where and know what the value is. So she loses up to 1 weeks progress in any game she's played, complains, but hasn't killed me over that yet <VBG>.

Irv S.

Posted 1 year ago
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whs
Posts: 17584

Yes, with the free version you have to manage the space yourself. But that should not be too much of a problem. All you need is a dedicated large external HDD that can fit plenty of images and review then once per month.

Posted 1 year ago
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StringJunky
Posts: 2454

Could some disk monitor via a program or script be set up for the backup drive to notify when the disk reaches a preset space threshold?

Posted 1 year ago
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whs
Posts: 17584

That is really not necessary. When you try to make an image and there is not enough space, it will tell you. And then you can do your housekeeping. I think we are complicating a simple matter.

Posted 1 year ago
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ispalten
Posts: 6259

It is a 1TB drive, but the PAGEFILE is on that drive and it is used randomly for some 'junk' files Bill. Still, trying to get 7 or so weekly images could be a pain. Yes String, I guess that could be done, but removing an image has to be done via the application. More to teach my wife. I think Windows even has/has that feature, I know W7 does. However the size of the image might be a problem as you'd have to leave a large size as the warning size, maybe 200GB's?

Like I said, Norton now is stating they expect to have a 'new' product soon...

===============
The identical solution to Ghost 15 is SSR 2013 desktop edition, which should release in the coming weeks. I am working with the beta team to allow Ghost users like yourself to download and test this software.
===============

Also as part of that message was this :

===============
A new version of Ghost is likely not going to happen by the end of the year. Until a new version of Ghost releases, you can use the Ghost CD to create images
===============

Reading between the lines so to speak, even if Ghost is updated it will be a NEW version. Ghost will work OUTSIDE of Windows, it is the automated within Windows when it is running that is suspect.

So far, from what I've seen, I think I'd go Macrium paid to get the disk space manager function, however, the way the taskbar 'blew up' when running in W8 worries me. I did NOT see this mentioned in their forums either, matter of fact only a few even mention W8, but this ONE did and does have me concerned to say the least... yes, only one report but their forum is NOT very active either?

Anyone HERE use it with W8 and KNOWS it works? Did you see the same Systray 'blow up' I did?

Irv S.

Posted 1 year ago
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ispalten
Posts: 6259

Looks like another to look at...

http://www.farstone.com/softwa.....ry-pro.php

It seems all the 3 PC licenses are around the same price too?

Irv S.

Posted 1 year ago
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StringJunky
Posts: 2454

Irv

You are venturing into the dark... . I'll stick my neck out and say you only have two choices: Ghost or Macrium. Acronis is not reliable enough when I've checked it out in the past. There's only one thing that ultimately absolutely matters and that's reliability in the backup world.

whs

I was thinking of Irv's wife with regard to the disk space alert so she had a clear warning.

Posted 1 year ago
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ispalten
Posts: 6259

I'm leaning towards Macrium too, but that break up of the Systray bothers me. Also no icon on it for Reflect? I have not really looked hard at it, but I suspect it is a task for service that is used to do the backups.

Still, silence from people here who are using it and W8 is worrisome. Same for the forums they have which is not heavily used (this could be a good thing too)?

It appears waiting for Norton/Symantec will only cost me more anyway. They don't sell 3 PC packages of Ghost which is not cheap to begin with. I can wait a few weeks, 2 left on the 'trial, and I can always re-install it it seems and get a new 30 days...

Irv S.

Posted 1 year ago
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StringJunky
Posts: 2454

People who only have the free version can't use the forum and I suspect the vast majority use free which obviously satisfies their needs sufficiently to warrant buying it. The relative lack of forum questions, extrapolated from my 3 years of using it, is that it is very to straightforward to understand and use and it is super-reliable which reduces the number of potential queries . It's far too soon to make judgements about its performance with W8 and don't forget imaging is a minority, presently geeky, activity which we are trying to promote! ;)

I thought of this :D ;

http://www.admad.tv/view/412/c.....ercial-ad/

Posted 1 year ago
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raphoenix
Posts: 14920

The BEST way to make an Image is to Boot from Bootable media and run the image program entirely in ram.

Posted 1 year ago
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whs
Posts: 17584

What on earth is this Transsylvanian method ?? LOL

Posted 1 year ago
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