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(Solved) - Vista - XP Network sharing problems.

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  • Started 3 years ago by ispalten
  • Latest reply from ispalten
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ispalten
ispalten
Posts: 6259

In a nutshell, the problem is Vista can see ALL XP shares on both XP computers, one Pro, the other Home, but neither XP system can see ANYTHING on Vista. To complicate things even further, both XP systems are running Network Magic, ver. 4, and with that, the XP systems can see the Vista system but NOT the shares.

I followed THIS MS VISTA FILE SHARING link to a 'T' and want SIMPLE FILES sharing so there is NO P/W involved. I also LOOKED HERE and again, I've done it the way they say?

Workgroup name the same, NETBIOS used, Vista set correctly. Network and Sharing Center, VIEW MAP, shows all computers?

From Vista I can access both XP systems and copy files from them, delete files on the XP system, or edit files on the XP systems. XP systems can't copy a file to the Vista system nor see anything on the Vista system.

I've done some debug, and here are commands issued on one XP system and the results...

===================
C:\NET VIEW

Server Name Remark

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
\\IRVS Gen5
\\LARAINE-HP Laraine-HP
\\LINKSYSWRT350N LinksysWRT350N
The command completed successfully.

C:\NET VIEW \\192.168.1.101

Shared resources at \\192.168.1.101

Laraine-HP

Share name Type Used as Comment

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C Disk HP_PAVILION (C:)
D Disk Data Disk (D:)
downloads Disk downloads
HP2575 Print HP Photosmart 2570 series
InstallProgr Disk Install Programs
NewsfilesDow Disk Newsfiles Downloads
Printer Print Quicken PDF Printer
Printer3 Print Powered by HP Instant Share.
Z Disk HP Personal Media Drive (Z:)
The command completed successfully.

C:\NET VIEW \\192.168.1.102

Shared resources at \\192.168.1.102

Gen5

Share name Type Used as Comment

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C Disk C_Irvs
C~1 Disk C_Irvs
C~2 Disk C_Irvs
F Disk F_Irvs
F~1 Disk F_Irvs
F~2 Disk F_Irvs
G Disk G_Irvs
HP5420 Print HP Deskjet 5400 Series
Printer2 Print Microsoft XPS Document Writer
SharedDocs Disk
The command completed successfully.

C:\NET VIEW \\192.168.1.103

Shared resources at \\192.168.1.103

Irv's XPS 435T

Share name Type Used as Comment

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C_XPS435 Disk
Canon MP470 series Printer Print Canon MP470 series Printer
Games DL Disk
IRV435_C Disk 435T C: Drive
IRV435_K Disk 435 K: drive
K_Irv425 Disk
L_XPS435 Disk
Public Disk
Quicken PDF Printer Print Quicken PDF Printer
The command completed successfully.

C:\NET USE \\192.168.1.103\irv435_k

The command completed successfully.

C:\NET USE x: \\192.168.1.103\irv435_k

The command completed successfully.

C:\NET USE

Status Local Remote Network

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK X: \\192.168.1.103\irv435_k Microsoft Windows Network
OK \\192.168.1.103\irv435_k Microsoft Windows Network
The command completed successfully.
====================

However, trying copy a file on the XP system above to X: results in ACCESS DENIED?

From what I've read, it seems the computer name isn't recognized and Vista isn't allowing access without a p/w? However, EVERYONE had FULL ACCESS in PERMISSIONS to all drives?

Both XP systems have no problems exchanging files?

Irv S.

Suggestions?

Posted 3 years ago #
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ScottW
ScottW
Posts: 6609

Irv, do you have to use Network Magic? I suppose that if you do your problems are solved because, according to Cisco, it "dramatically simplifies common tasks such as sharing files and printers...." Problem solved! ;-)

When you say the XP system can see the Vista PC but not the shares, where are you looking at this? Is that a Network Magic thing or are you looking in My Network Places?

I'm not sure that we need NETBIOS anymore since SMB can run directly on a TCP stack. Still, I haven't tried turning mine off! It's interesting that you see XP systems on the network map in Network and Sharing Center. I never see my XP systems there in Vista or 7.

So the systems that you have are IRVS, LARAINE-HP, and I don't see the 3rd host name. Also, why are you using IP addresses instead of host names? It's better to run net view commands with the host name because that also verifies that the name server is working. Why connect to the same volume share twice, once with no device name and then again with a device name, "x:" ?

All of the command output is very difficult to follow because I don't know which machine it was run on and which machine it is talking to.

Posted 3 years ago #
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ispalten
ispalten
Posts: 6259

Scott, thanks for the reply, I know this one is tough to figure and work out,

Your questions and my answers underneath :

=============================
Irv, do you have to use Network Magic? I suppose that if you do your problems are solved because, according to Cisco, it "dramatically simplifies common tasks such as sharing files and printers...." Problem solved! ;-)
=============================

No, I don't, I can get around fine without, but for my wife...

Before I got this Vista System we used it on all computers because it worked fine for all of us and really was easy to use. No messing with shares executing or transferring files.

=====================
When you say the XP system can see the Vista PC but not the shares, where are you looking at this? Is that a Network Magic thing or are you looking in My Network Places?
=====================

Using NM, Command line, and Network Places. One problem is the NAME, all of them DO NOT SEE the name, usually a NETBIOS problem, but it is enabled properly on both ends? If I use the IP address from the command line on an XP system, then the shares are seen, but not the system name?

On an XP System :

NETWORK PLACES only sees the other XP system once I drill down to the network name (same one on ALL 3, HOME), IRV-XPS435 is missing.
NETWORK MAGIC shows the name IRV's XPS-435 which I assume it finds from the IP Address, but it has NO SHARES underneath it.
COMMAND PROMPT NET VIEW doesn't show IRV-XPS435, but if I use the Vista systems IP Address (192.168.1.103) it knows it is there?

From the above commands shown in the first post,

+++++++++++++++++++
C:\NET VIEW \\192.168.1.103

Shared resources at \\192.168.1.103

Irv's XPS 435T

Share name Type Used as Comment

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C_XPS435 Disk
Canon MP470 series Printer Print Canon MP470 series Printer
Games DL Disk
IRV435_C Disk 435T C: Drive
IRV435_K Disk 435 K: drive
K_Irv425 Disk
L_XPS435 Disk
Public Disk
Quicken PDF Printer Print Quicken PDF Printer
The command completed successfully.
++++++++++++++++++++++++

That was done on one of the XP Systems.

A NET SHARE done on the Vista system yields :

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Share name Resource Remark

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADMIN$ C:\Windows Remote Admin
C$ C:\ Default share
print$ C:\Windows\system32\spool\drivers
Printer Drivers
K$ K:\ Default share
D$ D:\ Default share
L$ L:\ Default share
IPC$ Remote IPC
C_XPS435 C:\
Games DL K:\Games DL
IRV435_C C:\ 435T C: Drive
IRV435_K K:\ 435 K: drive
K_Irv425 K:\
L_XPS435 L:\
Public C:\Users\Public
Canon MP470 series Printer
USB001 Spooled Canon MP470 series Printer
Quicken PDF Printer
LPT1: Spooled Quicken PDF Printer
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The same stuff...

So, Vista thinks it is sharing the above, XP thinks so too, but I can't reach it using "\\computername" under NET VIEW or any of the shares using "\\computername\share". Substituting 192.168.1.103 for the computername will show the shares and allow drive letter assignment. Trying to access any share assigned a drive letter results in ACCESS DENIED, as was as a "DIR \\192.168.1.103\sharename".

==============
I'm not sure that we need NETBIOS anymore since SMB can run directly on a TCP stack. Still, I haven't tried turning mine off! It's interesting that you see XP systems on the network map in Network and Sharing Center. I never see my XP systems there in Vista or 7.
==============

Ahh, I can HELP YOU on that, you need to get LLTD Responder from MS, this is for the XP systems, This patch allows XP and Vista computers to properly see each other on a network.

=======================
So the systems that you have are IRVS, LARAINE-HP, and I don't see the 3rd host name. Also, why are you using IP addresses instead of host names? It's better to run net view commands with the host name because that also verifies that the name server is working. Why connect to the same volume share twice, once with no device name and then again with a device name, "x:" ?
=======================

Three systems, LARAINE-HP and IRVS are XP systems. The COMMANDS were done on IRVS, one of the XP Systems and shows the problem. The 3rd system that is on the network, IRV-XPS435, is NOT displayed on IRVS's NET VIEW command.

There are 3 IP Addresses, 192.168.1.101, 102, and 103. 192.168.1.103 is IRV-XPS435 as seen in the output I posted above.

I can access it in terms of seeing the shares using 192.168.1.103 but not as \\IRV-XPS435. This is 1/2 the problem.

I did a NET USE twice to a share on IRV-XPS435, once without a drive letter and once with X: as the drive letter.

The 2nd half of the problem is that even using the IP Address to reach a share, I can't access it. This is think had to do with not using a PASSWORD. I've unchecked SIMPLE FILE SHARING on the XP Systems as instructed and disabled PASSWORDS REQUIRED on the Vista System.

This could be a security suite problem, but all indications are that it isn't? XP's are running Norton's ISS 2009 and the Vista has McAfee's Security Center installed. Viewing the logs and reports on all systems doesn't show any problems and the entire network, 192.168.1.1 - 255 is TRUSTED on all machines. XP to XP is not a problem, everything works.

====================
All of the command output is very difficult to follow because I don't know which machine it was run on and which machine it is talking to.
====================

It was run on IRVS (XP system) and the variety of commands accessed different systems.

I'm really considering killing the security center on the Vista machine and seeing it that helps. I've checked it thoroughly for ports blocked and any intrusion reports, nada... it should let stuff in? Windows Firewall IS running? I thought it should be off with McAfee's in control? Well, the service is, but the Firewall itself is off. It appears the service has to run though. It does list the McAfee program and file sharing as exceptions to let through? The service runs because it seems if McAfee were to close, the Windows Firewall is enabled, so I've left it running.

Right now, this is more of a pain that a problem. My wife rarely runs programs off of my system and if a file is needed, I can do it all from Vista.

If you now understand where I'm at, good, you might be better at this than I am? I thought I knew NETWORKING, and DID, until I met Vista.

Posted 3 years ago #
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ispalten
ispalten
Posts: 6259

In reading my message, let me add that the Vista System is 192.168.1.103 and the name is IRV-XPS-435. This is the one not seen on the XP systems. Host name for the Vista System is IRV-XPS435.

Of interest and I just discovered this, NET VIEW on the VISTA system doesn't show itself either?

Some commands issued on the Vista System Command prompt...

C:\Users\Irv>net view
Server Name Remark

----------------------------------------
\\LARAINE-HP Laraine-HP
\\LINKSYSWRT350N LinksysWRT350N
The command completed successfully.

(NOTE: only 1 XP system on when this was run)

C:\Users\Irv>net config workstation
Computer name \\IRV-XPS435
Full Computer name Irv-XPS435
User name Irv

Workstation active on
NetbiosSmb (000000000000)
NetBT_Tcpip_{819811D5-D0FA-41E2-9DC7-92A9F404CFCA} (0023AEE6CDD2)

Software version Windows Vista (TM) Home Premium

Workstation domain HOME
Logon domain IRV-XPS435

COM Open Timeout (sec) 0
COM Send Count (byte) 16
COM Send Timeout (msec) 250
The command completed successfully.

C:\>nbtstat -n

Local Area Connection:
Node IpAddress: [192.168.1.103] Scope Id: []

NetBIOS Local Name Table

Name Type Status
---------------------------------------------
IRV-XPS435 <00> UNIQUE Registered
HOME <00> GROUP Registered
IRV-XPS435 <20> UNIQUE Registered
HOME <1E> GROUP Registered

C:\>nbtstat -A 192.168.1.101

Local Area Connection:
Node IpAddress: [192.168.1.103] Scope Id: []

NetBIOS Remote Machine Name Table

Name Type Status
---------------------------------------------
LARAINE-HP <00> UNIQUE Registered
HOME <00> GROUP Registered
LARAINE-HP <20> UNIQUE Registered

MAC Address = 00-1A-70-A4-EF-41

C:\>nbtstat -A 192.168.1.103

Local Area Connection:
Node IpAddress: [192.168.1.103] Scope Id: []

NetBIOS Remote Machine Name Table

Name Type Status
---------------------------------------------
IRV-XPS435 <00> UNIQUE Registered
HOME <00> GROUP Registered
IRV-XPS435 <20> UNIQUE Registered
HOME <1E> GROUP Registered

MAC Address = 00-23-AE-E6-CD-D2

Wondering why the Vista system (192.168.1.103) has 2 groups and the XP (192.168.1.101) has only 1?

Posted 3 years ago #
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ScottW
ScottW
Posts: 6609

Irv, I understand where you are at but I don't think I'm better at this networking stuff. When I first added a Vista system to my network, I followed the instructions in the TechNet article, that you referenced above, and everything has worked fine since. Our networks are fairly similar -- I also have two XP systems and one Vista (now Win7) system. However, I don't use Network Magic, I do use password-protected sharing in Vista/Win7, and Simple File Sharing in XP.

I wonder if just having Network Magic installed could be trouble. Does it hook into the network services somehow? If it were me, I would either go ahead with NM or uninstall it completely. Can't you get product support from Cisco? It's pretty clear that this product is not making things "dramatically simple" for you. Also, I notice that version 4 is downlevel and that Vista x64 was not supported until v4.9. Have you considered an upgrade to the latest version?

Posted 3 years ago #
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ScottW
ScottW
Posts: 6609

So let me show you how my network is in the hopes that something here will be useful. The systems are:

ASPIRE - Windows 7 (was Vista) with password-protected sharing
VAIO - XP Home (SP3), with simple file sharing (can't be disabled in XP Home)
INSPIRON - XP MCE 2005 (SP3) with simple file sharing enabled

This all worked in Vista and continues to work now that I run Windows 7. The following commands are run from the Windows 7 system, ASPIRE.

C:\>net view
Server Name            Remark
----------------------------------------------
\\ASPIRE
\\INSPIRON
\\VAIO
The command completed successfully.

C:\>net view \\vaio
Shared resources at \\vaio

Share name     Type   Used as  Comment
--------------------------------------------------------------
Camera         Disk
Epson          Print           EPSON Stylus Photo RX620 Series
My Music       Disk
Temp           Disk
Video          Disk
The command completed successfully.

C:\>nbtstat -n

Local Area Connection:
Node IpAddress: [192.168.1.106] Scope Id: []

                NetBIOS Local Name Table

       Name               Type         Status
    ---------------------------------------------
    ASPIRE         <00>  UNIQUE      Registered
    STARGATE       <00>  GROUP       Registered
    ASPIRE         <20>  UNIQUE      Registered
    STARGATE       <1E>  GROUP       Registered

C:\>nbtstat -a vaio

Local Area Connection:
Node IpAddress: [192.168.1.106] Scope Id: []

           NetBIOS Remote Machine Name Table

       Name               Type         Status
    ---------------------------------------------
    VAIO           <00>  UNIQUE      Registered
    VAIO           <20>  UNIQUE      Registered
    STARGATE       <00>  GROUP       Registered
    STARGATE       <1E>  GROUP       Registered
    STARGATE       <1D>  UNIQUE      Registered
    ..__MSBROWSE__.<01>  GROUP       Registered
Posted 3 years ago #
Top
 
ashi
ashi
Posts: 33

First of all did it ever work before?
in your case If the xp can see vista but can NOT share with VISTA then the problem lies with VISTA...it might be a simple solution.
create a same name (as on XP) on vista and see if it solve your problem. turn on password protection on vista too..

Posted 3 years ago #
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ScottW
ScottW
Posts: 6609

And here is the view from an XP system, VAIO, looking back at the Windows 7 system:

Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\>net view
Server Name            Remark
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
\\ASPIRE
\\INSPIRON
\\VAIO
The command completed successfully.

C:\>net view \\aspire
System error 5 has occurred.

Access is denied.

C:\>net use t: \\aspire\captures /USER:scott
The password or user name is invalid for \\aspire\captures.

Enter the password for 'scott' to connect to 'aspire':
The command completed successfully.

C:\>dir t:
 Volume in drive T is Programs
 Volume Serial Number is 1AE9-BCB3

 Directory of T:\

08/10/2009  06:24    <DIR>          .
08/10/2009  06:24    <DIR>          ..
06/27/2009  16:50       120,464,384 Screensaver - 3D Pipes Elbow Texture.avi
               1 File(s)    120,464,384 bytes
               2 Dir(s)  106,109,956,096 bytes free

C:\>notepad t:netview.txt

C:\>dir t:
 Volume in drive T is Programs
 Volume Serial Number is 1AE9-BCB3

 Directory of T:\

08/11/2009  11:02    <DIR>          .
08/11/2009  11:02    <DIR>          ..
08/11/2009  11:02             2,778 netview.txt
06/27/2009  16:50       120,464,384 Screensaver - 3D Pipes Elbow Texture.avi
               2 File(s)    120,467,162 bytes
               2 Dir(s)  106,109,952,000 bytes free

C:\>net view \\aspire
Shared resources at \\aspire

Share name  Type  Used as  Comment
-----------------------------------
Captures    Disk  T:
Users       Disk
The command completed successfully.
Posted 3 years ago #
Top
 
ispalten
ispalten
Posts: 6259

Scott,

============
I wonder if just having Network Magic installed could be trouble. Does it hook into the network services somehow? If it were me, I would either go ahead with NM or uninstall it completely. Can't you get product support from Cisco? It's pretty clear that this product is not making things "dramatically simple" for you. Also, I notice that version 4 is downlevel and that Vista x64 was not supported until v4.9. Have you considered an upgrade to the latest version?
============

Well, it is not Vista seeing the XP systems, that works well, so I'd think the problem lies going INTO Vista. NM, well, the UPDATE is to a NEW VERSION, 5.x and costs $'s. I'm at the latest 4.x version and it works...

I've got a license to put it on Vista but decided not to. I don't need it.

It does load device drivers, so maybe something out of the ordinary is happening? The Vista machine can access the XP's without problems through Explorer or Command line, so it is working from Vista to XP.

What now bothers me is that on VISTA a "NET VIEW" doesn't even list the Vista system? I'm beginning to suspect is the ROOT of my problem? If Vista can't see the name, how could I expect the XP systems too?

Again, my NET VIEW on Vista :

////////////////////
C:\Users\Irv>net view
Server Name Remark

--------------------------------------------
\\LARAINE-HP Laraine-HP
\\LINKSYSWRT350N LinksysWRT350N
The command completed successfully.
///////////////////////

It sees the router and one of the XP's that is the only XP on now, does NOT see itself?

Ashi,

------------------------------
First of all did it ever work before?
in your case If the xp can see vista but can NOT share with VISTA then the problem lies with VISTA...it might be a simple solution.
create a same name (as on XP) on vista and see if it solve your problem. turn on password protection on vista too..
-------------------------------

No, it never worked before. System is only 3 months old and I'm finally tackling this problem. I agree the problem is probably within Vista, but what?

I did create an IRVS account and user on Vista, it didn't change anything? Did not try password protection, but if it did work that way it would be a pain and I'd forgo using it.

Scott,

==============
simple file sharing (can't be disabled in XP Home)
==============

Uhh, I think you can? My wife's XP Home can at least (an HP). Go to Control Panel, Folders, VIEW tab, and all the ways at the bottom of the list, uncheck SIMPLE FILE SHARING... I think that does it?

I'm searching the web more deeply on this, I am NOT alone with this problem.

One
Two (not exactly the same but this tidbit was interesting, "Also, run the XP’s Home Network File and Printer Sharing Wizard to include Vista in your “New” Network, even if you had an XP Network set up prior to adding a Vista computer to it.) Had not seen this suggested before?)
Three, close and my REG value is 0....
Four
Five
Six (old with no answer)
Seven, checked McAfee, NETBIOS and ports 137-139 open...

Another 'problem solver' link.

It could be the security suite, but it isn't a definite thing?

So screwy, Explorer on Vista works fine, but not on XP, sees the Vista machine but can't access it? Vista Explorer sees itself, but NET VIEW doesn't?

I am probably missing something REAL simple?

Posted 3 years ago #
Top
 
ispalten
ispalten
Posts: 6259

Oh, this gets even MORE complicated...

On the VISTA machine I tried some NET VIEW commands.

Using no parameter, shows only other XP and router names.
Using Vista machine's IP address, it shows the shares for the Vista machine.
Using Vista machine's COMPUTERNAME it shows the share for the Vista Machine.

-----------------
C:\Users\Irv>net view
Server Name Remark

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
\\LARAINE-HP Laraine-HP
\\LINKSYSWRT350N LinksysWRT350N
The command completed successfully.

C:\Users\Irv>net view \\192.168.1.103
Shared resources at \\192.168.1.103

Irv's XPS 435T

Share name Type Used as Comment

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
C_XPS435 Disk
Canon MP470 series Printer Print Canon MP470 series Printer
Games DL Disk
IRV435_C Disk 435T C: Drive
IRV435_K Disk 435 K: drive
K_Irv425 Disk
L_XPS435 Disk
Public Disk
Quicken PDF Printer Print Quicken PDF Printer
The command completed successfully.

C:\Users\Irv>net view \\irv-XPS435
Shared resources at \\irv-XPS435

Irv's XPS 435T

Share name Type Used as Comment

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C_XPS435 Disk
Canon MP470 series Printer Print Canon MP470 series Printer
Games DL Disk
IRV435_C Disk 435T C: Drive
IRV435_K Disk 435 K: drive
K_Irv425 Disk
L_XPS435 Disk
Public Disk
Quicken PDF Printer Print Quicken PDF Printer
The command completed successfully.
------------------------

It 'knows' the COMPUTERNAME (irv-XPS435) but will NOT display it under NET VIEW? Odd?

Posted 3 years ago #
Top
 
ashi
ashi
Posts: 33

hi again..
If you are using windows firewall and the Mcafee services are still running then it might be the problem too. I would suggest install mcafee for a while.
Now It looks obviously the firewall problem. and it could be on XP denying access.. NOT vista as I said earlier..
also I would suggest also Allow remote access in My computer--->properties-->remote..> see how it goes..

ALSO allow the IP range on XPs firewall if not using windows firewall....

Posted 3 years ago #
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ispalten
ispalten
Posts: 6259

Ashi, the Vista Firewall is NOT running, it is active but not enabled. The SERVICE is however. According to McAfee, this is how it should be. I've had to do some McAfee un-install/re-installs and when it is removed, the Windows Firewall is enabled and disabled when McAfee is installed.

ALL SYSTEMS have the network IP addresses of 192.168.1.0 to 192.168.1.255 set as TRUSTED.

XP is NOT restricting access, Vista has FULL ACCESS to all shared drives and files on either XP system.

REMOTE ACCESS is and always had been enabled.

Posted 3 years ago #
Top
 
ashi
ashi
Posts: 33

have you read this?
http://windowshelp.microsoft.c.....31033.mspx

Posted 3 years ago #
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ispalten
ispalten
Posts: 6259

Ashi, yeah, that was one of the first ones I found when I was trying to figure out why the XP machines couldn't be seen, and I discovered the Link-Layer Topology Discovery (LLTD) protocol requirement on XP systems.

I'm no slouch on computers and networks, but this one has me stumped.

I am almost ready to call it quits! I'm just wondering IF I need to delete all the XP shares and re-create them and THEN maybe Vista will work? Only problem is all my 'gut feel' is that Vista is the problem child here, not XP.

The part that still has me baffled as well is why Vista cannot even see its own COMPUTERNAME on a NEW VIEW command in it? Smells of a NETBIOS problem, but it appears just to be a display problem, it does exist.

Posted 3 years ago #
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ScottW
ScottW
Posts: 6609

Irv, it's not just odd but downright troubling that the Vista PC doesn't see itself in net view. Also, you should never have to use IP addresses in those commands. If the host names are not being resolved there is a problem with the Netbios nameserver.

I have also looked around the web at problems others have had. The diagnostic procedures are all fairly the same. Make sure Netbios or TCP is enabled, that the Computer browser, Workstation and Server services are all running, and make sure the firewall(s) are set to allow SMB traffic for file and printer sharing. I did see the advice of running the Network Setup Wizard in XP, but no explanation of why this might fix things.

You mentioned the idea to delete and re-create shares. I was going to suggest that you delete entire network connections and re-create them. I would do that in Vista and XP and verify that the systems can see themselves and others.

Posted 3 years ago #
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ScottW
ScottW
Posts: 6609

The firewall question is interesting. I would think that if you have another firewall program, that the Windows Firewall service should not be running. You said it is "active" but not enabled -- what does that mean? Software firewalls are always suspects when there are network problems. It's always worth a shot to take down the firewall and see if things work properly without it. Then you will know for certain whether the firewall is the culprit or not.

Remote desktop is not required for file and printer sharing. RDP runs SSL/TLS over TCP so there is no overlap with Netbios or SMB. The Security Center service is one of those things that you don't really need running. It does not actually do any protecting of it's own. It just hangs around checking to see that other software -- firewall, AV, and such -- are doing their jobs. I think of it as a big nag service. This is explained by Black Viper in more detail.

Posted 3 years ago #
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ScottW
ScottW
Posts: 6609

As for me, I confirmed that Simple File Sharing is not optional in XP Home. From the KB article: "Windows XP Home Edition-based computers always have Simple File Sharing enabled." There is no check box for this in the Folder Options View tab in XP Home.

When I went looking at the LLTD responder link that you sent me, I remembered that I had seen this before. I had given up on it, though, after seeing all of the hoops needed to jump through. But this time, I did it and there is the XP system in the Network Map. Yay! Still, it was a lot of hoops.

Posted 3 years ago #
Top
 
ispalten
ispalten
Posts: 6259

Scott,

========================
Irv, it's not just odd but downright troubling that the Vista PC doesn't see itself in net view. Also, you should never have to use IP addresses in those commands. If the host names are not being resolved there is a problem with the Netbios nameserver.
========================

Another oddity that I don't understand, if I use "NET VIEW \\IRV-XPS435" (name of the Vista machine) on Vista it lists the shares. On BOTH XP systems, an error 53. So the 'name' is available on Vista but NOT propagating out to the network.

=======================
Make sure Netbios or TCP is enabled, that the Computer browser, Workstation and Server services are all running, and make sure the firewall(s) are set to allow SMB traffic for file and printer sharing.
=======================

Check, all there... and running.

==================
I would think that if you have another firewall program, that the Windows Firewall service should not be running.
==================

Well, McAfee keeps it on, as does other Security Suites. The reason appears to be when you remove the suite, it re-enabled the Windows Firewall for protection. With the service stopped it can't do this.

============
You said it is "active" but not enabled -- what does that mean?
============

The firewall SERVICE itself it started and running. The FIREWALL is If I open the FIREWALL in CONTROL PANEL it tells me the computer isn't protected, turn on the Windows Firewall. From the lower left if I select Security Center, it shows the Firewall ON. Expand that and it shows McAfee it protecting the system. In BLUE is a link to show the firewalls enabled. Open that, McAfee is enabled and Windows Firewall is off. Because of this I assume that it is correct AND Windows Firewall is not operational. You know what they say about ASSUME though.

=============
It's always worth a shot to take down the firewall and see if things work properly without it. Then you will know for certain whether the firewall is the culprit or not.
=============

You know, I thought the same thing. Disabled the FW, computer name still doesn't show in NET VIEW... Sort of points to Vista itself and the problem and possibly the root to solving it is to get the computer name to show in NET VIEW on this Vista computer?

Actually, I can now 'prove' it isn't the firewall. More testing and trying things. I've discovered that a "NET VIEW \\192.168.1.103\SHARE_NAME" on one of the XP systems that is on WILL WORK! However, NOT ALL will work. Only the shares to a folder, like PUBLIC, but NOT to the ROOT of ANY of the 3 drives I've got shared?

Look at this (on the Vista Machine) :

///////////////////////////
C:\>net view \\irv-xps435
Shared resources at \\irv-xps435

Irv's XPS 435T

Share name Type Used as Comment

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
C_XPS435 Disk
Canon MP470 series Printer Print Canon MP470 series Printer
Games DL Disk
IRV435_C Disk 435T C: Drive
IRV435_K Disk 435 K: drive
K_Irv425 Disk
L_XPS435 Disk
Public Disk
Quicken PDF Printer Print Quicken PDF Printer
The command completed successfully.

C:\>net view \\irv-xps435\k_irv425
System error 123 has occurred.

The filename, directory name, or volume label syntax is incorrect.

C:\>net view \\irv-xps435\irv435_k
System error 123 has occurred.

The filename, directory name, or volume label syntax is incorrect.

C:\>net view \\irv-xps435\public
System error 123 has occurred.

The filename, directory name, or volume label syntax is incorrect.

C:\>net view \\192.168.1.103\public
System error 123 has occurred.

The filename, directory name, or volume label syntax is incorrect.

C:\>net view \\192.168.1.103
Shared resources at \\192.168.1.103

Irv's XPS 435T

Share name Type Used as Comment

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
C_XPS435 Disk
Canon MP470 series Printer Print Canon MP470 series Printer
Games DL Disk
IRV435_C Disk 435T C: Drive
IRV435_K Disk 435 K: drive
K_Irv425 Disk
L_XPS435 Disk
Public Disk
Quicken PDF Printer Print Quicken PDF Printer
The command completed successfully.
///////////////////////////

This SAME command, "C:\>net view \\192.168.1.103\public" done on the XP machine shows the content of PUBLIC??? Figure that one out?

=============
Remote desktop is not required for file and printer sharing. RDP runs SSL/TLS over TCP so there is no overlap with Netbios or SMB. The Security Center service is one of those things that you don't really need running. It does not actually do any protecting of it's own. It just hangs around checking to see that other software -- firewall, AV, and such -- are doing their jobs. I think of it as a big nag service. This is explained by Black Viper in more detail.
=============

The Security Center is out of the way, and actually, McAfee had a problem recently where the A/V active protection was shutting down. SC alerted me to that fact. I think I'll keep it running just in case some new virus hits that shuts A/V off... Black Viper wasn't really against it.

I've used BV many times in the past, especially when I'm trying to wring out the last drop of performance on the system. However, this Intel 920 i7 is plenty fast 'now''. I've not messed much with the services to tune the system more.

================
As for me, I confirmed that Simple File Sharing is not optional in XP Home. From the KB article: "Windows XP Home Edition-based computers always have Simple File Sharing enabled."
================

Read the article... Doesn't say you can't turn it off in home, just that it is enabled? I've got all systems at Level 5 if that matters?

================
There is no check box for this in the Folder Options View tab in XP Home.
================

Have you checked? Opps, mea culpa, my wife's system is running the XP Media Edition, that has the check box. The 4th system we have on the network is her OLD one, a 1.6 GHZ Sony Vaio, and that is the XP Home system. I believe you, I'm not even going to turn it on to verify <VBG>...

=========
When I went looking at the LLTD responder link that you sent me, I remembered that I had seen this before. I had given up on it, though, after seeing all of the hoops needed to jump through. But this time, I did it and there is the XP system in the Network Map. Yay! Still, it was a lot of hoops.
=========

What 'hoops'? Install the LLTD is all I had to do? The FIrewall stuff didn't apply as I had a 3rd party one and it was already set OK. All I did was Install LLTD and then go to Vista and looked at the MAP.... there were the XP systems. Hmm, could this be related to my problem? Nah, can't effect the COMPUTERNAME problem and Vista has FULL access to XP systems...

My thoughts now are centered on getting the COMPUTERNAME to show in NET VIEW on the Vista system. Nagging stuff is I've not seen reports of this on the Web? Things to look at I suspect is the NETWORK driver. Dell is notoriously back-level. Realtek has newer ones. Dell's are a year old and Realtek has one less than a month old. I might try that. Also, I wonder if SP 2 might have screwed things up? I can't recall every trying NET VIEW when I first got the system, and within a month SP 2 came out for Vista and I applied it. I also recall the WMI problem I had and wonder if the 'fix' for that messed something up?

Well, this might have to move to the back burner for awhile. We're going up to Jersey for a few days, seeing grandkids and family. Returning with 2 granddaughters for 2 1/2 weeks and I might not have much free time to mess with this.

Posted 3 years ago #
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ScottW
ScottW
Posts: 6609

Irv, we are reaching the end of my expertise on all things Netbios over TCP, not that it was a long trip. :)

ispalten wrote: So the 'name' is available on Vista but NOT propagating out to the network.

I still suspect a problem with the NBNS (Netbios nameserver), I just don't know where it is. It may have something to do with the master browser. Have you checked WINS settings? I do know that WINS can be used for NETBT name resolution.

You know, I thought the same thing. Disabled the FW, computer name still doesn't show in NET VIEW

That's a good experiment. Now we can concentrate on other possibilities.

The Security Center is out of the way, and actually, McAfee had a problem recently where the A/V active protection was shutting down. SC alerted me to that fact.

I don't recommend against the Security Center, either. I was just pointing out that if the service is stopped, everything will still work. It's not required for firewalls and AVs to do their thing, but I don't have mine disabled either.

On simple file sharing: Read the article... Doesn't say you can't turn it off in home, just that it is enabled? I've got all systems at Level 5 if that matters?

It says "always...enabled" which means can't turn it off to me. There is definitely no option to disable it in XP Home, but it is there in XP MCE. XP MCE is odd that it has most of the features of XP Pro -- Remote Desktop, Group Policy, and now we know you can disable SFS. What is Level 5? I want my systems to go to 11! :-)

What 'hoops'? Install the LLTD is all I had to do?

For me the steps were: read the KB article, follow link and accept license agreement, select hotfix for SP3, type in e-mail address twice and fill in a CAPTCHA to request the hotfix, wait for e-mail to arrive, click on link provided to download a zip file, unpack zip file using password provided in e-mail, and then install LLTD. Simple!

Nagging stuff is I've not seen reports of this on the Web? Things to look at I suspect is the NETWORK driver.

Well, I certainly have no problem with getting the latest and greatest device driver. But when I look at the OSI model, a network device driver is way down near the device layer while SMB is up at the application layer. If the driver were a problem, I would expect far more widespread failure of the network.

The reason that I suggested deleting and re-creating the network connection is that this will reset all of the settings, even those that we may not know about, and would redo protocol bindings. Deleting shares would have no effect on these things.

Enjoy your time with the grandkids! See ya.

Posted 3 years ago #
Top
 
ispalten
ispalten
Posts: 6259

Scott, yeah, this has become a long thread, due to content, not replies...

Updated to the July '09 drivers for the card, no change, but not unexpected results either, sigh.

As for recreating stuff on this machine, mentally I'm saying to myself this is how Dell shipped it (it may not be, I may have damaged it somehow) so it 'should' work.

============
I still suspect a problem with the NBNS (Netbios nameserver), I just don't know where it is. It may have something to do with the master browser. Have you checked WINS settings? I do know that WINS can be used for NETBT name resolution.
============

Hmm, looked at V4 Internet connection, WINS has NETBIOS default set, should be OK. NO LMHOSTS checked? I don't have one, only the sample .SAM files, but I checked that anyway, no change.

I think I'll try the DELL NETWORK forums and see if other XPS 435T users have a COMPUTERNAME problem?

Like I said, the only other possibility I have is the WMI 'fix' VBS file I ran... the code is :

///////////////////////////////
strComputer = "."
Set objWMIService = GetObject("winmgmts:" _
& "{impersonationLevel=impersonate}!\\" _
& strComputer & "\root\subscription")

Set obj1 = objWMIService.Get("__EventFilter.Name='BVTFilter'")

set obj2set = obj1.Associators_("__FilterToConsumerBinding")

set obj3set = obj1.References_("__FilterToConsumerBinding")

For each obj2 in obj2set
WScript.echo "Deleting the object"
WScript.echo obj2.GetObjectText_
obj2.Delete_
next

For each obj3 in obj3set
WScript.echo "Deleting the object"
WScript.echo obj3.GetObjectText_
obj3.Delete_
next

WScript.echo "Deleting the object"
WScript.echo obj1.GetObjectText_
obj1.Delete_
////////////////////////////////////

I just ran it as Administrator blindly and didn't copy down the 3 items it deleted. I think I now need to know WHAT it did and am not sure how to go about finding something it deleted? Another project it seems....

Posted 3 years ago #
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