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Is the Column Bar (showing column headers such as Name, Modified on) really gone in Windows 7's Windows Explorer except for Details view?
See this to know what I mean: http://www.windows7taskforce.com/view/461
If not, how do I show it in Windows 7 in, say, Large Icons view?
You answered your own question by providing a link to the usability quirk submission which clearly says:
...the E7 team has removed one of the most useful little feature introduced with Vista: the always active column headers.
54 people voted thumbs-up on the suggestion to restore the feature, suggesting that they agree that it's missing. The 7 people who commented, did not deny that it was missing. What were you hoping to find here -- one more confirmation? If so, I can confirm for you that the column headers are still missing in icon views with Windows 7 RTM, build 7600.
Someone might find a way to hack it back in. Every version of Windows has had it's share of "tweak" programs. Also, if you want a more fully featured file browser -- or picture, music, or video browser -- there are lots of 3rd party utilities that provide more features than Windows Explorer.
Thanks ScottW. I know that the feature is missing from Windows 7. But it was also missing from Windows XP except for Details view. But I managed to get back the column headers, only that I forgot how I did it. I was hoping someone can tell me how to tweak to show the column headers.
As for 3rd party utilities to replace Windows Explorer, I tried a few but none showed the column headers except for Details view. Do you know of any that does?
I hope MS restores this feature before the official release in October.
Why do you want to view the column headers in the icon view? Is it just for the convenience of one-button sorting (vs two), or is there another reason?
I expect that the designers of these GUIs would say that it doesn't make sense to show detail view headers in a thumbnail view.
If you read the link I provided, other users agree with me that the column headers should be shown in the icons view. Why? So that with one look, you can know how the items are sorted and whether it is sorted by ascent or descent. Also easier to click once than 2 or 3 times. Try it yourself on Vista and you should know what I mean.
Why have it in XP and Vista and then remove them in Windows 7?
OK, so the answer is that you want it back for the sort status and ease of changing sort order. I can understand why some folks would want it.
However, I don't think that this feature should be provided by violating the guidelines of good usability and interface design. The column headers are shown in the Details view because it is tabular data. The Icon views show thumbnails in a grid. It does not make sense to show tabular column headings when viewing a grid. While some people might like it, most people would find it confusing. Also, a usability review would consider how often people change the sort order of their thumbnails and probably conclude that it's fairly rare and saving one mouse click per operation is hard to justify.
Still, I would support the idea of an optional sort status indicator and changer that followed the design of the rest of the view. So, an icon or series of icons or button(s) on a toolbar would work. For some reason, this is not a common feature in thumbnail viewers, even dedicated ones. I took a quick look at a few -- Picasa, IrfanView, FastStone Viewer 3.5, Canon Zoombrowser EX -- and none of these provide an easy to see or change sort options. At least, not that I could see with a quick look. However, Windows Live Photo Gallery does provide exactly this kind of sort status view and modifier:
Notice that it shows the current sort status, "Auto", and the order, "Ascending". Clicking on the sort order button changes the sort order. Clicking on the sort category shows a menu of other categories. This is an example of what I was suggesting before of an application with a narrower focus (image viewer) and more features than the general purpose Explorer.
Thanks for letting me know about the feature in Windows Live Photo Gallery. However, I would prefer it to be in Windows Explorer because :
- it is easier to SEE at a glance at the column header what sort and whether ascending/descending at a glance;
- it is easier to just CLICK one or twice to sort instead of right-clicking, etc.
- Image viewers can only sort images and videos. Windows Explorer can sort everything in the folder.
Your programmers didn't have add anything but just maintain this feature already found in Vista.
The lack of this feature will most probably be why Vista will be my last OS since 3.1 as I don't think I will upgrade to Windows 7.
Thanks for your help here.
While my personal preference is to use specific-purpose tools for each major file type, others prefer a general-purpose viewer that can handle all of them. That is what you get from Windows Explorer. I find that Explorer is trying to serve too many masters and becomes a jack-of-all-trades, but master of none. There are other general-purpose file managers which might do a better job. Programs such as TotalCommander, Directory Opus, Xplorer², and others might be able to do more since the people who make them have a narrower focus.
Also, it would be possible to create a system that works just as well as column headers in a thumbnail view without violating good usability standards.
As for this "feature" in Windows, it was not part of XP. I believe that you are saying you were able to make it show in XP with a hack. That it behaved this way in Vista is actually an aberration since XP and 7 don't have it, nor do any dedicated image viewers.
I appreciate and understand your viewpoint. Let's agree to disagree on this :)
How about a compromise for all those who want the column headers in icons views? Have it missing as default but add an option to have it in Local Group Policy Editor? Then the thousands or possibly millions of users who want it can have it back. Microsoft will then be seen to be sensitive to the needs of its customers.
OK. I said above that I would support an optional sort status indicator/changer. Where I think that we disagree -- agreeably -- is that I would not sacrifice usability for this and you would. That's cool.
I get the feeling that you think I am an employee of Microsoft. I'm not.
I don't think a column heading bar in icons view would sacrifice usability as I use it every day in Vista and find it very useful.
Except for Microsoft Forums, I don't assume that anyone is an employee. However, I hope Microsoft does read this posting and do something.
Thanks again.
I see -- you are talking to "them", in case they are listening. :-)
I want to thank you, too. This has been an interesting discussion and while we don't agree on everything, I appreciate a civil debate.
Finally, I present here my prototype of an optional Sort gadget for the Explorer in Windows 7. Keep in mind this is just my rough draft and we would send it to the Graphic Design department for a more artistic look before submitting it for a Usability Review.
ScottW, I enjoyed reading your viewpoint. Forums should be the place to exchange ideas.
Really nice Sort Gadget. It may even be more useful than the column bar in Vista if properly implemented. Of course, you need to have options to add more sort boxes and be able to choose other items such as Date Modified, etc. shown in Details view.
I am confused. You said you are not a Microsoft employee, so what Graphic Design department are you going to send it to? And why MS-MVP under your name? I don't assume you are an employee except in MS Forums but if you work for another company, I hope you can make this Gadget and distribute it as freeware for Windows 7 users. This column bar business is one of the reasons I don't want to upgrade to Windows 7.
BTW, here is a quote from another Forum (http://social.technet.microsof.....135a045888) which reflects how I feel:
"This is really moronic. In our business we use thumbnail view for folders each containing thousands of images. They need to be sorted either by Name or Date Modified -- hundreds of times a day. Already I've had to go through the tedious process of demonstrating how to do this for half a dozen people using my Win 7 RC machine. They can't believe that what used to be so easy is now so complicated.
Who's the nitwit responsible for this "feature"?"
That sort gadget is just a concept art that I threw together. The idea that we would send it on for implementation is just me being silly. I'm imagining that you and I are redesigning Explorer, that we have been put in charge, and the results of this thread will be used to fix this issue.
The MVP Program is and award given to those who contribute well in technical communities.
The statement from the poster in that other thread on the TechNet forums is a perfect example of a common problem. Some people take a *general* purpose tool and expect it to perform well on a very *specific* task. This never works out well, and such people often end up frustrated. I once had a poster in this forum asking how to use Explorer to manage a music library and do tasks such as bulk updates of metadata. There is another example of expecting the same general purpose tool to behave like it was designed and built for a singular purpose. It also illustrates another problem -- general purpose tools, such as Explorer, have so many different purposes that they conflict.
Anyone who has a *business* that deals with thousands of digital images, which are viewed and sorted or operated on hundreds of times a day, needs some software that is designed for that purpose. Professional image management software can also provide the end-user with extensibility such as the ability to create their own SQL-style queries into a database and create their own toolbar buttons. That is way too much to expect from Explorer.
After reading this post.. I'm a little confused. But I too like too view my image files as 'Large icons'; and have the ability to quickly switch between the once I've created most recently (Date Modified), and alphabetically (Name).
Is there a fix/patch/hack avaliable to solve this?
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