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Britain In Europe

(11 posts)
  • Started 1 year ago by StringJunky
  • Latest reply from whs
  • Topic Viewed 559 times

StringJunky
StringJunky
Posts: 2454

"SJ, I think you should leave the EU. Britain is only a burden preventing the EU to move forward."

I agree, I think it's because we are an "island" nation with the mindset to match but our governments insist on acting contrary to the British public's majority consensus.

The consequences for GB from the perspective of the British public seem to be largely negative especially with the new and freer migration rules.

As an angler, I am becoming alarmed, as are many others, at the activities of largely Eastern European people wholesale wiping out our native fish stocks with illegal catch methods. The de facto custom in GB is catch-and-release not catch-and-eat-everything-you-can. I'm seriously thinking about setting up a pressure group to increase the size of the penalties to more punitive levels and get our Environment Agency to take this more seriously. This is just one example of the effect of relations with Europe from a British perspective. I will say, to balance this, that it has enabled more rights for minority groups like gay people which is a good thing.

Posted 1 year ago
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whs
whs
Posts: 17584

I think there are many problems for all nations within the EU. Main reason is because the EU tries to 'streamline' 27 countries that all have their traditions, laws and habits. But if we ever want to become a united states of Europe a la the US, that's the price to pay.

Right now what bothers me the most is that Germany always seems to have to foot the bills. We already pay about 45% of all the EU cost and some of the other countries are still not happy. Look what is happening in Greece right now. They eat our money and complain about the Germans that pay their bills. I would have set them back to their Drachme a long time ago rather than wasting our taxpayer money for them by the tune of hundreds of billions. If they want to be fat cat, they'll have to work for it.

Posted 1 year ago
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StringJunky
StringJunky
Posts: 2454

"I think there are many problems for all nations within the EU. Main reason is because the EU tries to 'streamline' 27 countries that all have their traditions, laws and habits. But if we ever want to become a united states of Europe a la the US, that's the price to pay."

This is the problem for the majority of the Brits I think. They see the Union as a trading body rather than heading towards a centralised government covering all aspects of each country's societal infrastructure. There's a clash of desired goals here. Part of me thinks it's the only way to solve the big problems on a global scale but the price at the national level for each country is rather high...square pegs through round holes and all that. :)

"Right now what bothers me the most is that Germany always seems to have to foot the bills. We already pay about 45% of all the EU cost and some of the other countries are still not happy. Look what is happening in Greece right now. They eat our money and complain about the Germans that pay their bills. I would have set them back to their Drachme a long time ago rather than wasting our taxpayer money for them by the tune of hundreds of billions. If they want to be fat cat, they'll have to work for it. "

Germany and France are the kingpins in the EU ideology so it is important for them to keep it going complete with the financial consequences that goes with that. In retrospect it would have probably been better to have kept the EU membership small until had all systems in place and fully functioning between them. GB has definitely made this process harder but it's not the British public's fault.

Posted 1 year ago
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whs
whs
Posts: 17584

Absolutely right. They ran ahead of themselves without the proper instruments. But here again it was a few countries who were blocking the progress. Those should have been given the choice of either marching in line or leaving. Britain is only one of those.

And then there was, of course, the mistake to admit some of the countries that were absolutely not ready and got only in on a bunch of promises (that they did not implement) and because they were cooking the books.

Posted 1 year ago
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LadyFitzgerald
Posts: 2232

Don't use the United States of America as a model. It's not working all that well over here (to grossly understate it). Every State has its own laws, every county (or parish; we can't even agree on what to call them) has its own laws, every city has its own laws... it's a miserable mess only lawyers could love. Don't even get me started on the outmoded farce called the Electoral College, a bicameral Congress whose members stonewall each other like spoiled children in a playground, etc. Everything worked back in the late 18th Century when most people rarely traveled more than ten or twenty miles from their birthplaces but now...

Posted 1 year ago
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whs
whs
Posts: 17584

LF, You are right. That always amazed me in the US. Everybody seems to make a fence around their plot. You can't even get from McDo to Dunkin Donuts next door without walking thru a hedge. And all these local ordonances. In our county in FL we have an ordonance that defines the minimum size of a bikini that women must wear on the beach - really ridiculous.

Posted 1 year ago
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LadyFitzgerald
Posts: 2232

Yeah, the U.S. is supposed to be one country but actually we are thousands of little kingdoms operating in slightly larger kingdoms that are operating in still larger kingdoms, etc. headed up by what has become an ineffectual Federal government that can't even agree with itself.

Posted 1 year ago
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StringJunky
StringJunky
Posts: 2454

Good points about the US system. What it teaches us about human concepts of governance is that they must only cover a certain size then you have to create another tier of governance and so on! :) What needs to be done in the US, and it's an extremely task due to the constitution, is that the role of federal government needs to take on FULL executive decision-making for policies that affect everyone in the US. Examples are minority rights and the gun laws. This is what the UK ,and others, does and the EU is trying to do. Really, there is no precedent for what the EU is trying to do at this scale.

Posted 1 year ago
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LadyFitzgerald
Posts: 2232

StringJunky, you understand the situation here much better than most people here (especially the bickering children in Congress). What will make the task of unifying everything under the Federal government difficult to impossible isn't the Constitution (most of our civil rights are now being ignored anyway in the false name of "security")—a new one can be always drafted and ratified (in theory)—but, rather, the individual States being unwilling to give up any of their power. Sad to say, it probably would take another revolution to pull it off and I doubt that I would have to tell anyone how badly anything so draconian as that could turn out instead.

Posted 1 year ago
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Lighthouse
Lighthouse
Posts: 13598

whs. The reason why Deutschland has to foot the bills, is because they started the debacle. No one of the origional member states wants the Euro. Britain did well to keep out of it.

Posted 1 year ago
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whs
whs
Posts: 17584

LH, there you are right. I wish we had never started with that Euro. They say that it helped the German export industry, but for the German consumer it was a disaster. In that one instant, Britain did the right thing.

But that was no reason that e.g. Greece would swindle their way into the Euro by cooking the books. And those fat cats in Brussels were asleep at the wheel not checking it. I would not have given 1 single penny to Greece to bail them out - which will probably never happen anyhow. We just continue to feed them.

Posted 1 year ago
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